atorvastatin

Treatment and medication
1

I have been reading about statins and have my own story.

I was diagonised with blocked arteries with up to 90% blockage in LAD, last year. Have a stent and need to take clopidogrel 75mg, this has given me endless problem, but this is must for one year.

at the time I ticked all the boxes on healrhthy side.

1) No smoking ever

2) No Alcohol at all

3) I am 5ft 5inch my weight 54kg

4) was going to gyme veryday for 1hr every morning.

5) very fit no tiredness very active with walking and garding and extensive diy work in the house.

6) my cholesterol at that time was 3.6

Recent test same level without any statin use.

I was pescribed atrovastatin 40 mg.

Started having very bad muscle cramps

they reduced to 10 mg. still gives same problem. I do not take them

My question is how much a person's cholesterol need to be/ Or is it an automatic requirement to have statin because you had blockage?

My diet is as healthy as it should be.

any comments!!!! Will welcome information for alternative to statin or something that can efectivelt reverse the blockaage,in arteries.

hirani

2

I'm very sorry to hear of your vascular problems hirani and I hope that things are starting to improve for you.  It's fairly apparent that your cholesterol reading as low as 3.6 shows conclusively that the blockage was not due to exclusively to your LDL levels.  Whether taking statins is beneficial for anything other than reducing LDL I have no idea but if you were prescribed them merely on this basis, then I honestly believe that would be wrong.  It seems to be an automatic requirement for GPs to now prescribe statins regardless of whether cholesterol is at fault or not, I truly am at the point where I think they'll prescribe them for everything from ingrowing toenail to typhoid, without thought of the damage they can do to a person's body.  I and many others have tried researching alternatives to statins but mostly this information relates specifically to keeping cholesterol low and yours is already at the bottom end of 'healthy'.  As you already have a stent and are on clopidogrel, in my non medical non expert opinion I cannot understand why you have been put at risk by forcing dangerous statins on you too.  Please be assertive with your doctor and ask them specifically WHY you have to take statins when your cholesterol is already so low.  The risk of muscle and liver damage is very high and you have to balance this against what the statins are actually preventing in terms of your arterial problems.

3

You don't need to lower your cholesterol any more than it already is, in fact that's probably too low, which is why you are having muscle cramps and risking permanent muscle damage.

Our bodies need some cholesterol to function, it's ridiculous to keep lowering it and lowering it, if I were you I'd stop taking statins altogether.

 

4

Totally agree with you Jude.  In all the research I've done, nowhere does it say that statins are beneficial for preventing arthersclerosis, only for lowering cholesterol and Hirani's cholesterol is already at the very bottom of a healthy scale, any lower and there would be cognitive function problems.  I despair of this situation where statins are forced upon everyone and anyone regardless.  What a dangerous mentality this is.

5

Quite a few years ago, I used to have high cholesterol, reading 6.9 then I started taking Proactive spread and that reduced it by 20 per cent.

when I had a thallium test I mentioned this to her and she said she totally believed in these spreads as did a dietician that I spoke to.

as others have told you, your level is low, I spoke to our doctor and practice nurse recently and they said the ideal level is a reading of under 5.

6

This doesn't work for everyone and the pulmonary nurse at rehab told us that it also lowers the good cholesterol!

 

7

Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that.

8

very good point Jude.  The important factor is the differential between the 'bad cholesterol' (LDL) and the 'good' (HDL), it's not healthy to lower HDL.  

9

Yeah, that's what they taught us at rehab, amongst many other good things like the breathing techniques, how to pace ourselves so we don't get so tired and heaps more .....

10

I am not going to comment on statin as this has been covered here and in another discussion on this forum (which I suggest you read). Regarding your comment about reversing the blockage in your conorary arteries, I believe this is not possible, irrespective of what medication you take. This is why they have fitted a stent ( a tube to unblock the artery) in your LAD. I'd like to be proved wrong as I was diagnosed with a 70% to 90% blockage to my 1st diagonal artery which is too narrow to stent and was told it will remain blocked. I am impressed by your clean living and fitness level so why did you end up having an angiogram which detected your blocked LAD?

11

As I read about statins there only good when a person has had heart attack but if side effects persist me I wouldn't take them and cholesterol levels for me 5..4 ish is acceptable our body needs cholesterol balance good and bad so me I think your levels ate really good and if you stay health none smoker no alcohol stay fit active chuck them in the bin for 3months have a test see if your blood flows well in your legs have fasting full bloods done then you can be sure

12

The answer to how did I end up having the stent.  

I am a UK residence. The NHs is a hit and miss. The quality of healthcare is all start with your GP. If he is good he will check and refer you to  a specialist, from there there is another hit and miss is which specialist you get to see, in hospital so on…. There is a big wait for each process including a simple blood test.

To start....

I went to my GP surgery as I was feeling generally unwell. My Personal experience, or opinion of my own GP is very bad. Lucky enough I saw a Low com or temp doc. who listened to my complaint and when I suggested that I had a bad family history with regards to heart. She did my cardiogram, which was normal. But despite this she refered me to hospital Cardiac unit.

At hospital the nurse looked at my cardiogram BP etc. that was okay according to her. I told her that this was all normal at my own GP’s surgery but you should do more tests. After that. LUCKY for me! she got me to do a Stress echo test . During this test the consultant found that my heart was struggling! at high exercise level.

I want to cut the story short,

At that time I already had booked my trip to India for a family function. I got an okay from the consultant Cardiologist to travel. First thing I did in India that I had a basic health check with Heart pack. In this they do a normal echo cardiogram plus a treadmill test. Everyone should be surprised that the result of these test were absolutely normal. Yet with knowledge that My heart was struggling in Stress echo I consulted an independent cardiologist who suggested CT angiogram where by they inject a dye in your arm and take images of the heart blood vessels. That report was the first that indicated the blockage of 85 -90% in part of LAD and 65-70 & in part of the right artery. with this knowledge I took the opinion of the Cardiac surgeon in India, I was given 2 options 1) stent 2) Mini bypass. At the time I did not know a lot about the stent etc.

Now I know

1)The stent may not last as long as Bypass.

2) require special medication to stop the stent clogging up for up to 1 year. These medication are like do or die. You have to have them or the stent will fail. The bad side is that people like me get very bad side effect and have to live with them. This may cause the harm to your other organ about which OI do not know a lot , at the present.

 With bypass there is no such medication, and last longer, I have seen people with 20+ yrs and no reported blockage.

However, so I got the stent, in time, which most of the people will get once they had serious problem with their heart including heart attack and permanent damage to the heart muscles.

13

I have tried to ask every availed health professionals that I have come across.

How low one’s cholesterol should be?

There is a minimum maximum for everything like vitamins blood sugars and almost every blood test that is done on me. Blood pressure. Pulse etc…. too low of these can be life threatening.

I diabetic person can not survive at zero sugar level there.  A person on insulin need to be very vigilant. If their sugar drops TOO low they are in danger. They carry sugar tablets or something for this.

Cholesterol is required by our brain and many other important functions in our body. For these reasons it is made in leaver. From my understanding the statins interferes with the process in lever. This is one of the reasons there is a possible risk of damage to your lever. Secondly it simply lowers your cholesterol , even the HDL. This I have heard from many people on statin.  

I experienced and reported the muscle cramps to my GP yet they want me to have it.

My wife’s cholesterol is 6.2 with GP she was told that she does not need Statin. Her parents had heart problems. She was not even given dietary advice.

I advised her to control with diet and exercise. What else we can do?

Now where is a sense in  this????

14

Hi Hirani Thank you for sharing your story with us. I find it quite unbelievable. You were so right to continue to pursue an accurate diagnosis and thankfully a repair to your artery.  When you say you must take medication for a year otherwise the stent will fail - do you mean Atorvastatin? Regarding the bad side effects - is that from the Atorvastatin? If it is you may wish to try another statin which may agree with you better. There are many types of statins so ask your GP.

15

The medication I am talking about is clopidegrol, an anti-clogging tablet.  Statin simply lowers your cholesterol,  according to my GP and every other health care persons, statin is for life. A stent is a foriegn body -object, therefore the blood tends to get clogged around the stent. For this reasons they give you an anti clogging tablet for 1 year  plus asprin.  asprin is  for life.

With regard to your 70-90% blockage  you were told that a stent can't be fitted is a surprise to me, but then I am not acordiologist. There are some very good cardiologist in India. You should take  an opinion from them.

I would also like to express some of my own views,  about my clogging. Dispite my such agood health profile why or how I got up to 90% blockage. No doctor so far have been able to answer this. My own answer is that I am from south east Asia, am a male and have bad family history. This puts me at a high risk catogory, It all comes down to Genes and my inheritance. I need an expert in this area who can target my faulty genes and treat me for this. Apart from this I believe there is not an effective treatment, apart from the doctors and cardiologist just give you tablets that may or may not help me.

 

16

I'm really getting tired of responding to this myth that statins are only "good" after  a heart attack THEY LOWER CHOLESTEROL WHICH IS BELIEVED TO CAUSE HEART ATTACKS AND/OR STROKES so are prescribed for HIGH CHOLESTEROL hopefully BEFORE a heart ttack.

Whether or not the negative effects are worth it is another matter

17

Interesting comments. I also take clopidegrol with no side effects but I cannot take Asprin. Regarding the 70% to 90% blockage in my 1st diagonal artery, the reason why it is not possible to fit a stent is because this artery is much too small for a stent to be inserted.

18

This just shows that aspirin, a drugs that is widely prescribed does not suit everyone.

You can tolorate clopidegrol, I am having problem with it. Yet you can not take aspirin, this does not cause any problem, to me, as yet. Aspirin is a much widely priscribed drug to most people even without any heart history, diabetics etc, just because they are PRESSUMMED to be at higher risk of heart problems. The aspirin is generly required to be used for life.

If you can share, I would like to know why an how the aspirin does not suit you.

I have heard on the internet that there are issues with apirin, yet It would be nice to your personal experience with aspirin.

 

19

As Jude has commented, statins are not for 'after' a heart attack specifically.  They are given to patients to reduce cholesterol levels, which MAY result in them suffering a heart episode or stroke, ie as a preventative measure.  In those who have already suffered a heart issue, they are given to maintain lower cholesterol levels.  However, lets be clear here, the previous recommended 'healthy' level for cholesterol was considered to be between 4 - 6 and not requiring intervention at this level.  This has now been reduced to just above 3.  Almost nobody has natural readings at this low point, other than some of those affected by dementia or alzheimers who have been noted to have particularly low cholesterol.  Statins are now prescribed to those without high cholesterol but who are deemed to have a 10% risk of a heart episode/stroke within the next 10 years as a result of either familial (hereditary) history of heart problems or lifestyle.  Sorry to be cynical but to be brutally honest, 10% risk over next 10 years could be almost ALL of the population in the west! This profligate form of prescribing practice helps no-one and causes untold suffering in some.  I have a cholesterol level of 9.  It's hereditary.  Neither lifestyle nor diet can change it - I am healthy, eat a balanced healthy diet and exercise, there are no lifestyle changes I can make that would affect my cholesterol.  Thus its statins or risk a stroke.  Statins disabled me to such an extent, permanently, that I personally have chose to not take them and risk the consequences.  It's a personal choice.  If I had been told I should take them 'just in case' on the basis of a ridiculous calculation of 10% risk in next 10 years OR if I already had relatively low cholesterol, I would have laughed in my doctors face and told him I value my health above the profits of the pharmaceutical companies and basicially to 'get lost'.  Taking a toxic chemical such as a statin MUST be a matter of personal choice and by investigating the benefits against the dangers.  Lowering cholesterol does NOT prevent heart attacks, it reduces cholesterol, which may or may not be a contributory factor in the risk of heart problems.

20

Good reply.  What's more, there are several references on the internet to a US committee which substantially reduced the "safe" level of cholesterol, said committee having a majority of representatives of pharmaceutical companies on it - around the time statins first became availabile.

Enough said I think .....