B12 Symptoms

Allergies, blood and immune system
1

Would anyone agree that the following

is clear B12 symptoms for male over 50?

B12 serum result 145ng/L range of 130--800 ng/L

Symptoms short term memory .

pins and needles hands waking up in the night couple of times a week .

Also reading what i think a word is sometimes.And sometimes say the wrong word for what i really meant to say .Tinnitus gradually worse like hissing also like when

your hearing is when you have a cold too.

Over 5 migraine a month Aura only no headache .slight numbness on side of big toe.Just finished B12 Loading dose 6 injections over 2 weeks after GP

agreed to it.Will wait until the end of the year for Intrinsic Factor test .GP says would like to give Injections every 3 months.My mother has PA diagnosed very late with neurological symptoms so my concern is i may have a gradual

move towards PA.GP is worried of overdosing me over the B12 range of upper limit of 800ng/L as i requested injection every 2 months but would only agree to this as i am in the range but would agree to every 3 months as i could end up with too much B12 in system.I agree with the GP some of the ideas explained that i am in the just in normal range .But not sure about

overdosing on B12 never seen in any evidence in any literature.I am open to the fact i may not have B12 problem leading to PA but from the BCSH GUIDELINES B12 under 200ng/L would be clear marker of a

deficientcy.

Any suggestions i would be very grateful.

2

Hi, your b12 levels show deficiency and you should have the intrinsic factor antibody test asap, to determine whether it is Pernicious anemia or deficiency caused by diet, gastric issues etc, your ferritin and folate levels will also need checking . there is no possible way to overdose on b12 as you urinate away any that isn't needed by your body.

Your symptoms match mine and my b12 level was 175, I had loading dose some weeks back along with a positive intrinsic factor test, therefore I have Pernicious aneamia, wasn't that surprised really, as my sister has it too.

However doctor for some strange reason wants to check my b12 levels again in November, I'm now off work due to pins and needles in hands and feet, light-headedness, drunken feeling and general progressive fatigue. I did try light duties for a few days but the nature of my job means even light duties involves some heavy lifting.

I have a Gp appointment tomorrow and will tell him what I'm telling yourself, any b12 deficiency that also presents with neurological symptoms ( tinnitus, tingling hands etc) needs to be treated with a intra muscular injection of b12 every other day until there is no improvement in symptoms, then another injection every 8 weeks, this is the BNF 9.1.2 . and N.I.C.E guidelines, it also states that after diagnosis of Pernicious aneamia, b12 levels do not need to be checked again, not just a 2 week loading dose and one every 3 months like they seem to offer as standard, I have no idea why they don't follow their own guidelines??! Please put your foot down, armed with the knowledge of the BNF guidelines, you shouldn't get sub standard treatment smile

3

Long questions - short answers.

Your low B12 @ 145 and your symptoms suggest a B12 Deficiency.and this coupled with P.A. in your family points toard you having it too.

As for "overdosing" here is an extract (from an incredibly long discourse on the subject on a Dutch website)....

Treatment with high dose vitamin B12 been shown to be safe for more than 50 years

"Out of fear of overdosing vitamin B12, treatment is often reduced to below the frequency that is needed by the patient, or, even worse, treatment is stopped completely.

As a result, symptoms can reoccur again and again and even become irreversible.

It is very clear this fear of overdosing is based on a misunderstanding. For over 60 years high dose vitamin B12 treatment has been used without any signs of the danger of an overdose.

The Dutch National Health Counsel and the Regional Disciplinary Medical Board of Eindhoven have stated clearly that vitamin B12 is non-toxic.

Clinical research and the treatment for cyanide poisoning have shown that even extremely high doses of vitamin B12 and the serum values that go with it are harmless.

A decennia long history of safe treatment

In 1926 it was discovered that patients with pernicious anaemia could be saved from a certain death by eating a pound of raw liver a day. More than 20 years later the substance that was responsible for that was isolated from liver extract: vitamin B12 or cobalamin. Since then numerous patients have been treated with high dose vitamin B12 worldwide. Usually per injection and often lifelong, as a deficiency is mostly caused by an irreversible absorption disorder. In all that time harmful effects have never been shown from overdose. No single case has been found in medical literature in the past 60 years.

No maximum dose

The Dutch National Health Council therefore decided not to determine a safe upper intake level for vitamin B12. In their report from 2003  the council joined expert commissions from the American Institute of Medicine and the Scientific Committee for Human Food from the European Union, who had already reported 3 years earlier that toxicity from high dose vitamin B12 poses no real danger."

I am not a medically trained person but one who had had P.A. for 45 years and I'm still "clivealive" at 75. 

4

john thanks for your kind in depth

reply about B12 and providing all the facts

I will get a folate and ferritin test at some point thanks for reminding me.

And also the details of the BNF which is interesting.I will return to my GP and provide these details too.And thanks for your support too.Hope your symptoms improve soon too.

Good luck with your GP appointment.

Some GP, do seem to be behind in updating their knowledge example like you can overdose on B12! also need to update their knowledge of the

Guide lines and the BNF information.

Good Luck and good health

5

Hi clivealive

thanks for all the literature you have

generously provided suprising the

GP was not very knowledgable

although in my letter to the GP

before my appointment i ask the GP

to read the BNF at the surgery looks like didn't bother!

I will pursue this and will get the right

treatment thanks for your kind help.

6

You have a good understanding of your condition and I wish you well in your "fight" for the right treatment.

7

Hi Clive, it's been a little while since I last got back to you and I hope you are well? Well anyway you seem to of read the same information and articles I have about B12 toxicity, and I have answered the B12 toxicity question before. The only other thing I have to add why doctors are cautious about B12 levels is that a indicator of some forms of cancer is high B12 serum levels, however it is only one indicator and does not make a diagnosis of cancer! I just thought people need to know this as well, which may explain doctors reluctance to give us the correct treatment!

8

Agreed and a good point Kelly, however people being refused further injections because of high levels have high levels because they are having injections and a serum B12 test at that time is pretty meaningless.

9

Hi again! I get what you are saying! I guess doctors only have a bit of a panic about high serum levels only post treatment, and how do you and your doctors know you have high serum levels? Because you have a blood test! ... doh! ... your points proven! :-) its just a shame doctors can be reluctant to treat on the first place!