I am also wondering why there isn't a rehabilitation hospital for people trying to get off of this stuff.
Trish, about heart rate, your heart is affected in 2 ways now:
1. your body has too much adrenaline now when you stopped taking BB's (in fact, you have normal levels of adrenaline, let's say 100%, but with BB's, medicines were blocking a part of adrenaline, let's say 20%, so your heart and brains were affected by only around 80% of your total adrenaline in your body. And your body readjusts very fast to new conditions, to these 80%. So, now you are back to 100% of adrenaline and now your body needs some time to readjust, to learn again how to handle so much adrenaline. Until then, you will have too high HR and anxiety, which will eventually go down slowly as your body will ajdust.)
2. no2 is: your heart beats slower on BBs, but also it pumps less blood in each contraction (let's say that heart pumps only 80% of blood in each contraction under Beta Blockers compared to 100% before BBs).
So, your heart gets weaker as a muscle while you are on Beta blockers, it has to work slower and with less strength in pumping.
Now, heart again adjusts to that scenario and it stays slightly weaker. When you stop taking Beta blockers, your heart is suddenly forced to pump 100% of blood in each contraction (the same as it has always been working), and heart is now extremely tired and fatigued because it is not in a good shape/condition due to Beta blockers.
This is why we are having huge problems even while resting and especially if you want to walk.
So, my advice, don't do any activity (except going to bathroom and similar) until your resting heart will get better (And try to sleep/rest a lot to bring your heart back in shape). And then, when you'll feel better, you can slowly start walking for a few minutes and try to stay in standing up position for 10-15-20 minutes (heart needs to beat stronger when we are standing up, so you are "excercising" even when you are only standing and doing nothing). And each day try to do similar activities for longer and longer and it should be fine.
Thanks again Bob!
Hello, Bob! You seem to be very knowledgeable on this subject so I will ask you your opinion since my Dr won't get back with me.
I'm 31 yrs old and for the most part in good health, fairly fit. 5 months ago I had a heart ablation due to ventricular tachycardia. The horrible episodes which caused me to pass out were stopped by the ablation but it did nothing for the terrible palpitations and left me with periods of elevated HR (120-130 resting). This has been exhausting and very inconvenient as I have a baby and a preschooler to take care of, not to mention running a business. My Dr didn't seem concerned and said the only thing to do would be a mild BB but he was reluctant to do so because my BP stays so low. 80s/40s is normal for me. The elevated HR became more of an issue, lately, however, and my Dr prescribed Pindolol which he assured me would not lower BP. I started the Pindolol 5 nights ago. 5 mg 2x daily. The first 2 days went well. I actually thought it might be helping. But the 3rd day I started feeling awful. Palps were far worse than before and my heart felt to be coming out of my chest. Went to bed, woke up with a severe panic attack. I thought I was dying. It finally passed, went back to sleep only to wake up to another panic attack and horrible tingling in my arms and legs and HR resting at 130. Then I remembered that the same thing had happened before when I was in the hospital just before the ablation after 2 or 3 doses of metoprolol. I didn't take another dose. I haven't had a dose for 36+ hours. I'm experiencing horrible anxiety, weakness, breathlessness, lightheadedness, dizziness, elevated HR, internal tremors, and feel about as sick as I've ever been. After only 4 days - 7 doses, total. What I'm wondering is, how long will it take to rid my system of this horrible drug after such a short time taking it? Any insight or advice you have would be very much appreciated! Not sure how much more of this I can take. Thank you!
Hi, Highlandemmy! For the beginning, from what I know, ventricular tachycardias (VT) are far more dangerous than supraventricular tachycardias (SVT or SPVT) or than sinus tachycardia (a regular rhytm, but too fast for some reason, HR 100+).
So, about your original disease, you will need to discuss with your doctor or a cardiologist how to continue regarding medicines.
People on this forum are taking Beta blockers and similar drugs for 100s of different reasons. Some take them for high blood pressure, some take them after a miocardal infarction, some take them for benign palpitations, some take them for more or less dangerous arrhytmias, some have chronic heart failure, some are taking them for headaches/migraines, tremor, social anxiety etc
Then, beta blockers will cause zero side effects in some people and 100 of side effects in other people. Plus, when you try to quit them, you will have classic withdrawal syndromes of elevated heart rate, palpitations, elevated blood pressure, anxiety, nausea, dizziness etc.
But now, "the problem" is that each person has a different original disease.
So, if you took Beta blockers for tremors, if you quit BBs, you will have higher HR and higher BP, but you'll survive fast without too many complications.
If you took them for high BP, you will have problems during a withdrawal with too high (dangerous) BP, and normal problems with elevated HR.
But, if you have arrhytmias as your original disease, you will suffer the most from too high HR and from very strong arrhytmias during a withdrawal.
So, you see, all people will suffer similar problems during a withdrawal, but your original disease may make it even worse.
So, for someone who has a healthy heart and who was taking BBs for headaches or tremors, we can say: quit them cold turkey, you will be fine eventually.
But, if someone has VT or BP 180 before drugs, we can't just say: quit them and you'll be fine. Those people can suffer heart attacks, strokes and similar, sadly...
I am not a doctor, just a user who was reading a lot on 100s internet pages. My advice is: talk to your doctor/cardiologist.
You need to ask/find out:
1. whether you can live without Beta Blockers?
If he says yes, then try to wean off/quit.
If he says no, you shouldn't stop them, since it can be deadly.
2. if a doctor says that you need medicines, but you have huge problems with a current BB, you can try some other BBs, even though majority of them will lower your Blood pressure and cause numerous side effects.
On the other hand, I have read that Calcium channel blockers can be given to people who can't tolerate Beta blockers and vice versa.
Further, if you will need to take either BBs or Calcium Channel blockers, you still have an option to try 4-5 different BBs/CCBs and find the one which causes you the lowest amount of side effects.
Also, there is an option of titrating a dose: to lower your dose in half and similar and to find a dose which will be high enough to prevent new episodes of VT, but which will, on the other hand, have less horrible side effects.
3. for some types of arrhytmias (sinus tachycardia, for some types of Spvt) you can use a new medicine Ivabradine which only slows the heart and doesn't affect blood pressure at all. But I don't know whether it can be used for VT.
On the other hand, there are some other medicines which can also be tried for VT outside of BBs, you need to ask your doctor for those options and then try one by one.
4. there is probably an option with ablation
So, don't do it on your own.
Call your doc, arrange a visit, and ask all these questions for the future. Then you can try several different drugs and find the one which fits you the best, and find the right dose, or at least you can make a plan how to live and fight with your disease/drug's side effects in the future, and to weigh pros and cons of every scenario.
On the other hand, if maybe you can live without medicines=awesome.
But you will need to talk with your cardiologist about that.
Good luck
Thank you so much, Bob. Still trying to get in touch with my doctor.
Has anyone reported numbness in their extremities while on or getting off of beta blockers?
I had a numbness in my fingers for a few days during a Bisoprolol's withdrawal.
Also, from time to time I had a strange sensation around my lips.
As if they are dead and numb.
It would come and go from timeto time.
More or less, if you are experiencing anything strange, it is 99% a withdrawal. Beta blockers are affecting our whole body/system and our bodies first readjust when we start to take BBs (compared to a state when we didn't take any drugs) and then after some time on BB, our body is readjusted and when you stop taking them, the body needs to readjust again which can lead to 100s of strange side effects and sensations.
About extremeties, just look at it this way:
1. first you had a normal state of blood vessels in your body, before BBs
2. then Beta blockers have widened your blood vessels in the whole body to lower the blood pressure. Then the body has readjusted to this new state, of wider blood vessels.
3. now, when you stop taking Beta blockers, your blood vessels will get very narrowed. That means that suddenly your extremeties may get a lower amount of blood until your body readjusts to a new (original) state. You may get lower amount of blood in those weeks because of that.
More or less, Beta blockers will change your whole body, all organs and all vessels in your body.
One more point. When blood circulation is decreased as BB do to the limbs (cold limbs), the muscles atrophy When they do, no more "heavy-leg" feeling. Of course, even mild physical exertion will give you a great case of delayed onset muscle soreness with what is left of your muscles. You likly won't get the prize of increased muscle because of decreased blood supply! What a wonderful drug! Very little sleep, very little working memory, very little energy, a lot of apathy, a lot of depression...what a way to live.
I found an article about this:
beta-Adrenoceptor antagonists influence the metabolic responses in man at rest and during exercise. Impaired working capacity and muscular fatigue have been reported in patients on beta-blockers and this could be due to an altered substrate supply to the muscles. The results from several studies show that the main effect of beta-blockade on metabolism is decreased lipolysis, with less fat available to the muscles. This results in an increased carbohydrate demand to maintain an unchanged aerobic metabolism, and liver and muscle glycogen stores are more rapidly depleted. beta-blockade also results in decreased lactate release from the muscles, probably due to a membrane effect and/or changed perfusion. It is concluded that beta-blockade a) decreases fat metabolism in the muscle, which secondarily increases the use of carbohydrates during exercise, resulting in earlier hypoglycaemia and/or depletion of muscle glycogen with reduction of the working capacity, b) impairs lactate transport from the muscle but does not cause lactate accumulation within the muscle which could be responsible for muscular fatigue.
wow, we must be studying in the same "library". I am still stunned that I did not research BEFORE subjecting my body and life to this drug. Only after no one took my complaints seriously did I begin to search for the answer myself. It is only my faith in God that gives me hope to get free of this drug.
Thank you, hopefully, these withdrawal symptoms will resolve themselves in time and I will have no more periodic numbness/tingling.
Hello again - hopefully they will. My Husband suffered terribly with all the symptoms whilst on and coming off of Bisoprolol/Warfarin, however after yet another urgent admission to Hospital was taken off the dreaded drug which was replaced with Digoxin and within a day or so they took effect. He still has some of the withdrawals but is feeling and looking so much better. During his visit to the Docs yesterday she mentioned how well he looked (although saying he is still quite ill) she did say that Digoxin doesn't do the same job as Bisoprolol, does Bob perhaps know why? Although he is feeling so much better he now suffers from very swollen legs and feet, they are very firm and a strange orangey/pinkish colour with intermittent pink rashes especially around the ankle joints. Does anyone else have these symptoms.
"she did say that Digoxin doesn't do the same job as Bisoprolol"
Drugs work differently because they are from different class of drugs. Majority of these drugs try to lower blood pressure or slow down tachycardias and arrhytmias, but each of the classes of drugs try to achieve it in a different way.
Imagine if you need to lose some weight: that is your final goal.
But you can achieve it in a several ways. You can eat more healthy. Or you can eat the same as today (unhealthy) but in lower portions than today. Or you can eat the same as today (unhealthy), but you will do a lot more of physical activity, so you will lose more energy than till today, and so you'll again lose some weight.
So, each option works in a different way, but the final result is a similar=you will lose some weight.
The same is with these classes of drugs: Beta Blockers (Nebivolol, Bisoprolol, Atenolol, Metoprolol), Calcium Channel Blockers and Digoxin (for example). Four mentioned Beta blockers are from the same class of drugs and they work more or less (like 90%) the same (Bisoprolol, Atenolol, Nebivolol). They all "attack" our B1 and B2 in our bodies and block the adrenaline.
The difference between different Beta blockers are that some are newer, older, stronger, more selective towards heart/lungs (some are 3:1 selective towards B1-heart vs B2-lungs receptors, some are 4,5:1 or 9:1 selective etc.)
So, they are the same in their basic action (blocking the adrenaline), but each of them will have slightly different side effects.
So, the difference between Bisoprolol and Atenolol is very small.
But the difference bewteen Bisoprolol and a Calcium channel blockers is much larger. They will both lower the heart rate and blood pressure, but they will "attack/alter" different mechanisms to achieve that.
Beta blockers will block some percentage of adrenaline (this is why we have withdrawals and anxiety when we quit them), while CCBlockers will attack Calcium channels in our hearts. So, they will also slow down the heart, but with "attacking" a totally different mechanism.
CCBs will be better/weaker (maybe your doc meant on that: some classes of drugs are stronger/better for treating your original disease) for each unique person and they will bring a totally different set of side effects connected with mechanisms whic they are attacking.
Digoxin is the same, it attacks Na and K channels in our hearts. So, it again creates the same effect as Beta blockers or Calcium channel blockers, but through totally different mechanisms.
Doctors usually prescribe BBs for majority of cases (as the first option), and they switch to different options for tachycardias like CCBlockers, Ivabradine, Digoxin if BBs are not well tolerated (bad side effects), or if BBs are not helping to that person etc. (or they switch to 10s of different classes of blood pressure drugs)
Swollen legs and feet are probably from a new drug. The sad thing is that some people have 0 side effects from BBs or CCBlockers, while other people have strong side effects on each drug.
So, if your husband needs to take some drug, he will have to accept that he will have some side effects on each drug and then you have to weigh pros and cons (which drug helps you the most with your illness, and which one has the least horrible side effects) and then decide which one he will be taking. Good luck
Thanks Bob for your prompt and very informative reply - I will study your info but I am sure that swollen feet and legs are no comparison to all those dreadful side effects of the Bisoprolol. I'd like to keep in touch. Thanks again inf
Hi am 67, last year I had throat cancer managed to get it treated immediately and during radiotherapy treatment because I was unable to eat or hold anything down for three weeks I became dehydrated my blood pressure dropped to 62 ! heart rate 200bpm called 999 had 3 litres of saline + and everything corrected itself stayed overnight and was prescribed BBs 1.25mg and aspirin plus cylacine which helped me to start eating again. My GP kept me on BBs even though she put a letter on my file stating she was happy for me to stop them, I was going to India for three months so she doubled my dose to 2.5mg. I had a FULL heart scan which was Normal just before I left.
When I arrived in India my BP went up to 185/100 saw doctor in India went onto BP tabs. But after increased exercise after spending the last 12 months fairly doormant because of my cancer my BP started to correct itself so I had the opposite affect so after 2 months I stopped BP tabs and felt Ok.
I have been fairly active since but started to feel weak and unwell, so decided to look at what the BBs were doing to me, checked BP before taking BBs to find BP was raised but after BP shot up 160/90 Heart rate dropped to 55bpm, I Halfed my dose and found I felt better BP was raised just after taking BBs kept on 1,25mg and meanwhile arranged an appt at docs, told her my findings and she told me Just to STOP taking them 5 days after reducing my dose !
Went Glamping the following week felt good until the last day of our holiday whilst tidying up to leave for home my heart went into a rythem all of its own !
I have since had two similar episodes and had paramedics out, they said my heart was fine my BP was their main concern as it was 193/110 and said anxiety had pushed up the BP. He asked me what I was frightened of and I said that I was frightened of my Heart Stopping !
Spoke to a doctor 3 days later as they could not see me for a week, after having another episode during a shopping trip and she said to go back on the smaller dose and stay on that ! I said no way am I going onto a drug for the rest of my life that I should not have been on in the first place, they seem to be unaware of how dangerous this drug is !
Anyhow after reading this forum I feel that following my own instincts and quitting these BBs is critical to my future health, I can now understand why ERs are full ! Most of them are people like us on BBs !
Still feeling Lousy but I am full of hope after reading these articles, just want to say thanks to you all for taking the time to let us know what has happened to you, so much so I had to tell you my story, will keep you posted I am only in my third week of ditching the BBs......
I am so glad I found this threat. I was on Bispropolol for over 6 years with a mis-diagnosis of HBP. I started to wean over 2 months ago but I wasn't taking much to begin with; 1/4 of a tablet 2 x daily of a 5 mg tablet. It has been a literal hell and I will NEVER go on BB's again. Racing heart, thumping, increasing heart rate doing the simplest of things. Oh, the anxiety (which has tempered down now). I suggest to anyone that is getting off this stuff, to go to a Naturopath and see if they will guide you on using Avena Sativa (liquid or homeopathic tablets). It helps to calm the central nervous system - also helps the breathlessness, which I couldn't pin-point as to why and now I know. This is a dangerous drug and one they hand out like candy. It put out my thyroid too (hyper now but am using a homepathic tincture by Biomed called Lycopus which is helping to balance it back to normal). Although I have taken a lot of medical, I did not know that new adrenaline receptors were being made all the time I was on the BB's and that is what is causing the most problems. I'm super sensitive so this has been an eye-opener for me. Never, never again. Slowly I'm improving - it's been one week now without even the 1/8 I was taking at night to wean, which doctor said was a non-dose really. But to me, it was a slow, slow wean. There is one post here that says everyone is different - very true. But the majority are experiencing withdrawal and not easy withdrawal. This is worse than quitting cigarettes!
Because Pharma would have to admit that their drug has the potential to be deadly.
I encountered the symptoms you are describing when I stopped taking Bisoprolol 5 mg . By chance I started taking Magnesium glycinate . My anxiety was reduced . Google magnisium. It is a rather harmless supplement and it has a calming affect on the inner organs. I talked to another doctor who said Not to take too much magnisium. 800 mg is too much and may cause diarrhea. Check with your health care professional. If you decide to take magnisium experimment . I almost feel normal.
I have encountered episodes of what I term "low blood sugar" and they have been worse since getting off the BB. I do like you - take biscuits or a banana when I get the shaky feeling. I know it will improve. I was getting the shakes and rapid heartbeat when I went to get dressed in the morning and almost losing my breath. That has now improved too (almost one month off the horrid drug).