Calcium to magnesium ratio

General health and lifestyle
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This issue came up again yesterday when I talked to a chiro I saw about 5 yrs ago and will see her in mid Nov as she does muscle testing and we will test some of the supplements I take....she saw me before hip replacement mess....so I was getting her up to date on my mess from the replacement...

She has a different opinion than I do on the calcium magnesium intake, I take more magnesium than calcium and now the higher dosing of Vit D....  so doing some research AGAIN, thought I'd throw this out....so many docs just are not "in the know" about the value of magnesium for calcium absorption:

Typically, less than half of calcium intake is absorbed in the gut, the rest either being excreted or potentially forming kidney stones or being transported to soft tissues where it can harden (calcify).

Adequate levels of magnesium are essential for the absorption and metabolism of calcium and vitamin D.

Magnesium converts vitamin D into its active form so that it can aid calcium absorption. Magnesium also stimulates the hormone calcitonin, which helps to preserve bone structure and draws calcium out of the blood and soft tissues back into the bones, lowering the likelihood of osteoporosis, some forms of arthritis, heart attack and kidney stones.

There is a growing amount of scientific evidence pointing to high calcium - low magnesium intake leading to calcification, or hardening, of arteries(atherosclerosis—the number one cause of death in the U.S.), osteoporosis and osteoporotic bone fractures.

Recommendations for calcium intake vary greatly. In the U.S., adults are told to take 1,000 mg per day and women over 50 are told to take up to 1,500 mg. In the United Kingdom, the RDA is 700 mg daily, while the World Health Organization recommends only 400-500 mg.

Often supplementation is taken without consideration for the amount of calcium in the diet both from food sources and water. Many people, especially those consuming dairy products, have high-calcium diets. This can lead to a greater amount of unabsorbed calcium.

"Most people—and most MDs—do not understand the importance of calcium-magnesium balance at a cellular level. The effectiveness and benefits of calcium with respect to bone health and the prevention of osteoporosis are enormously impaired in the absence of adequate levels of magnesium in the body," Dr. **** states.

"If we consume too much calcium without sufficient magnesium," according to ****, "not only will we create stress within the body but the excess calcium won't be utilized correctly and may become toxic. Magnesium keeps calcium dissolved in the blood. Too much calcium and too little magnesium can cause some forms of arthritis, kidney stones, osteoporosis and calcification of the arteries, leading to heart attack and cardiovascular disease..

What I've been taking in recent months is:  500mg magnesium citrate or other quality mag, 3 times per day and 500 to 750mg quality calcium.  

I will see my integrative MD in a couple weeks to go over recent labs and bring this up again.   

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Hi Joy--I'm more familiar with the recommendation to take 2:1 or 1:1 ration of calcium to magnesium.  Looks like you are taking a ratio of 3:1 magnesium to calcium?  Do you have some research which imforms your decision to add extra magnesium? Any benefit from taking those doses?  I often take 800mg of magnesium (in divided doses) and 500mg calcium (I do not drink milk), and 6000iu vitamin D. I also try to get vitamin K2 in pastured ghee (some do butter or supplements) because K2 is also an important part of making sure that the bones get the calcium deposited there.  Thanks for looking at this important topic.      Suzanne

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Hi Joy

I have a form of arthritis called Ankylosing Spondylitis - I have been gluten and corn free for over 20 years - but take a number of vitamins / minerals regularly.

i was told 20 years ago to take 2 * magnesium to 1 * calcium ( mag2 1cal) and it has helped me a  lot - I try and take good quality minerals.  I dont drink milk either - but do have Sheeps yoghurt.   The vitamin D link is key also - as you can take loads of vitamin d but if you magnesium is low then it is not converted to be bioavailable.

i am sure too bat magnesium keeps my gut nice and alkaline - which means less gram negative bacteria such as Klebsiella also associated with my arthritis.

Re-reading your post I agree with everything you say :-)

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Suzanne, I've just heard of too many over loading of calcium and people ending up with calcium deposits on thyroid for one, a friend went thru that one as her doc had her on mega Tums, which is such bad advice, and no magnesium...this women ended up having her thyroid removed....she's now taking mag on my advice but lost a lot of her voice with losing thyroid which was not necessary.

Then I've heard about people and stones from overloading calcium and probably little or no mag.

I just figured mine out on my own after reading and research and talking to a lot of people over the years.....there are books too on this mag issue/deficiency....

So many are suffering due to inadequate MD's....so the fortunate ones who care and do their research we are so much better off.....but all the others, good grief.

And the RDA's set by the industry are all LOW LOW LOW.....

I take most days about 2000mg of quality Vit C too spread thru the day.... 

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T.M.G.!!!   Glad you are on top of things too, I know of AS and I don't deal with that arthritis but OA and Fibro and a mess from hip replacement.....do deal with spondylolisthesis L5-S1 for a long time and spinal stenosis since hip replacement in 2010......lots of of not good things since hip replacement, but no groin pain...so I got rid of groin pain and took on a lot of other pains...

I've had 2 MRI's since 2010 and good grief, the back mess....but I would NOT do a back surgery.    I exercise some, stretch a LOT and ice and heat and supplements....and ibuprofen..

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Hi Joy--In addition to the calcium and magnesium, vit K, vit D, I also take about the same amount of Vit. C as you, as well as adding a good quality multi vit/mineral supplement, probiotics, fish oil, sometimes mixed tocopherals/E, evening primrose oil, and I also give my kids (18 and 22) astaxanthin and curcumin. It's quite a handful.  I would have to say that the two supplements that I almost preach to people about are magnesium and vit D.  My butcher mentioned chonic insomnia and muscle cramps, I brought him a bottle of magnesium citrate from another part of the store, and a couple of weeks later he says he's doing amazingly well, for the first time in years!  I encouraged a friend of one of my son's who was having chronic hiccups to take some of our magnesium, and they went away within an hour (he'd had them off and on for days).  There is so much suffering that people have no idea is related to low magnesium!  --Suzanne

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You are so correct....My top supps are:

Grape Seed Extract or Pycnogenol

Magnesium

Vit D

Armour Thyroid (script) but it's a food

I also take others and most that you do too.   We are in synch...Nice of  you to help the butcher....I have given my "not in the know" so much info and help.    I have my daughter and 17 yr old grandgirl on grape seed ex and mag too....my daughter is now very much into holistic healing....she went thru a nighmare some yrs back from pharma drugs.....hard lessons.   J

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Yes, I took the road of hard knocks with conventional medicine too, but now I am very selective what I will consider beyond natural healing (I am on a couple of thyroid R'sx rather than armour due to porcine allergy and I am also trying clobetasol). Most of the problems I have are actually related to being hurt by conventional medicine--e.g., too many antibiotics for respiratory infections were the likely cause of my celiac disease, and no one thought to do a small bowel biopsy even though I had numerous GI work-ups, so it was undiagnosed through most of my life, etc. I am especially horrified by conventional cancer screening and treatment, and conventional obstetrics.  I have a hard time watching people sucked into those systems unquestioningly.  So sorry that your daughter went through a pharma nightmare.  I've had to protect my kids in numerous ways too, just wish that I had this paradigm shift earlier in their lives so that I could have protected them sooner from antibiotics, poor food choices, and lack of needed supplements. At least we finally are seeing the light these past few years. Thanks for the heads up about the grape seed extract and pycogenol.  Will have to look those up again.  --Suzanne

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MAYBE one has to go thru some hard rocks to get to where they need to be, huh.....for many years I was going around warning people of the dangers of consuming all the crazy soy products on our store shelves now....I learned my lesson with that one too, fatigue like crazy, soy is a killer for our thyroids.....a chiro I saw years ago saw my almost crawling into his office and he did the soy test and sure ENOUGH...he said get off that soymilk......then I began to warn everyone I came in contact with and now I've stopped.....worn out trying to help everyone see the lights.....

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Agreed about the soy.  When my now 18 year old son was an infant, he had severe eczema and food allergies (due to my poor gut health--even with almost 3 years of breastfeeding), and I had to go off of most foods to breastfeed him.  He couldn't eat many foods, so we supplemented with soy milk from 16 months to 4 years old.  When I was seeing someone with a specialty in nutrition I mentioned how irritable and unhappy he seemed, and she told me to get him off of soy and why. I researched it, and that was the beginning of my paradigm shift to healing naturally.  He was much better after I took him off of soy.  I shudder to think what I did to him all those years!  When I went off of soy I stopped having migraines.  Soy is awful!  I've tried to share info about soy to people too and had the same reaction of disbelief, so now I usually don't say anything.  It's hard to be informed about these things and not comment, but people are very attached to what they want to believe.  

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Oops!  Looks like I mentioned wes-ton-pri-ce and got moderated when replying to your soy comments!  When this happens I wish we could go back and delete these slip-ups and not wait for moderation.  Have to remember to copy before I send in case it gets hung up! 

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WAP does a lot of research and work on the soy mania issue..

Yes, I get tired of spending my energy to reply and then have it go into moderation ..... like i'm doing a  horrible thing...

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Yes--I'll stick to WAP next time I reference it!  Certainly does slow down the discussion to have it go to moderation!

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Hi Joy,

Do you know anything about magnesium building up to toxic levels if your kidneys aren'y functioning well?  I've has 2 kidney sugeries.  Also, I just had my thyroid out  and 2 of my parathyroid glands. The doctor has given me 1500 mg of calcium to take, 3,000 units of vitamin D3 and no magnesium.  After this operation, I started to get heart arrhythmeias and put myself, (with my doctor's agreement), on 400 mg of magnesium every other day.  Will this small amount help with the absorption of the caclium and vitamin D?  Thanks, Nancy

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Your story about soy and your son, I did a lot of child care after I left my many years of hard core work, and one child I took care of her mom had her on soy formula, I cringed like you can't imagine and gave her the soy bottle mom put out for her.  this little girl had horrible constipaiton issues too.....   Some/most people don't want other's advice unless it's their good ole docs.....not this lady ANYMORE... Probably over my lifetime didn't get much good advice from docs......I've become my own doc more and more in the last 25 some yrs.....J

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Gosh Nancy I can't answer that serious question....do you have faith in  your doctor?   Getting another opinion from a naturopath or integrative MD could really be in order...  or another kidney specialist.

Personally I don't see an issue with 400mg mag every other day, it is certainly indicated for cardio support....maybe someone else here can add a comment or two.

Why the thyroid removal?   J

 

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Just got a message from a friend who is very involved in holistic healing and she deals with ME and she takes 1:1 cal/mag as her chiro who muscle tests says this is a good ratio for her.....1000mg  cal and 1000mg mag.

One of the best forms of calcium I've found and other friends put me onto this is calcium hydroxyapatite and I take 500mg of this one daily....do a search on it's absorption.    I've used this one and also trade off on a food based calcium ... gotta make sure one is getting the best calcium quality. 

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I don't recall any good advice from docs--sad to say.  We definitely have to become our own researchers. Many people are misinformed about health issues, due to ignorance or financial bias in the information that's out there. Not sure why docs are given so much credibility for giving advice in areas they know very little about, such as nutrition.  Somehow we seem to imbue them with god-like abilities and most others as quesionable sources.  The person who gave me nutritional advice that changed my world and my son's world when he was four (fourteen years ago) was nora ged-guadas--she actually was assisting me with neuro feedback and just sharing her interest in nutrition at that time. Later she left and made a big dent in the paleo world.  How about that?  Having access to the internet wihin the next few years helped a lot, too. It's a fantastic resource for researching.  Not sure why more people don't do more research--hard to even get some people to look up the most basic information!

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Thanks Suzanne.  Appreciate your imput.  The trouble is, I have done a lot of research, but I can get several answers to one question.  So, which answer do I choose to believe?  I know you can't anser that, but that is one reasonn why people give up on research too.

Good health to you!

Nancy

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Thanks Joy!  I hardly have any faith any doctors...I have been misdiagnosed by many of them, and have found answers on my own when they couldn't.  I wish I could trust them because I am getting weary from all this research. My Dad was a doctor and he was truly gifted.  I think he was one of the last doctors I trusted.

Anyway, I was given radiation treatments when I was about 3 years old in the 1950's.  It was something they just did to kids before they had their tonsils removed, (to shrink them and then take them out).  Stupid...eh?  They just didn't know any better.  My sister and I developed tumors all over out thyroids and parathyroids and they needed to be removed.  Thank goodness they were benign.  I haven't been so lucky with my kidneys.  I am fighting cancer in both my kidneys.  I've has two operatiolns and that's why my kidney function is not good.  In one kidney they got all the cancer, but in the other, they didn't.  The tumor was sitting on top of an artery and they couldn't remove it all.  I am relying on God to see me throught this.  Many people are praying for me.  I just got back from being rescanned at the Cleveland Clinic.  So far, so good.  No kidney cancer in my lleft kidney....and the cancer is stable in the right.  in fact, there was another tumor growing there last time, and this time it has gotton smaller.  I am truly starting to believe in the power of prayer.

Good luck to you...and thank you for responding to my question.

Nancy