Curious withdrawal symptoms

General health and lifestyle
1

Hi all!

I'm back to making another concerted effort to go dry.  I'm now just over my first 24hrs.  Lode-dosing with diazepam and it has so far kept my mind off liquor, and I'm barely shaking or trembling.  Yay!

I made it three weeks a couple weeks ago.  I wanted to ask you all, who have experienced moderate-to-severe withdrawal symptoms, if you've experienced these strange withdrawal symptoms.

=  After about 12-15 hours after my last drink, I find I become clumsy. Trying to get a cigarette out of a pack can be so frustrating I've just ripped packs open to get a darn smoke out.  It's like my coordination is wrong, and my limbs don't want to do what I want them to do - I guess I could say it seems to be a screw-up in fine-motor control.  Does this happen normally to anyone but me?

=  This one I've never heard anyone else, or read anywhere of this happening to people withdrawing from alcohol.  About 20+hrs into drying out, my skin 'hurts' everywhere to touch.  Gently running my finger across my chest makes it feel sore as if I was bruised (but am not bruised).  No skin rashes or anything, just a strange all over my body sore feeling on the skin.

Anyone experience this before??  I've experienced once before when withdrawing, and it seems to resolve in about 72-hours or so.  Even my doctor was at a loss.  He said it's normal to feel like your 'skin is crawling', but I never had that.

Just curious.  Maybe I'm weird ;-)  I'm also finding, that, after numerous attempts to go clean over the last two years, I can say that the more often you try and fail, the easier the first few days of withdrawing go. You start learning from previous mistakes that led you to slip, and apply those lessons to your next attempt.  The best I've done in the last 2 years since I first started wanting to quit, was going 1.5 months completely clean.

So don't give up if you feel like you've let yourself down when you have a drink after trying to quit, ruining a 'streak'.  Don't beat yourself up over it.  Collect your motivation-up again, and jump back on the horse.  I used to get so depressed letting myself down by drinking after being dry for weeks and weeks, that I'd just drink more.  Try not to let it demoralize you too badly.

Thanks all!  I hope you are all making some strides in your recoveries! I always welcome anyone who wants to message me to chat!

Warm regards, Steve

2

WOW..you sound really good and positive for being in withdrawal....

The agitation (like your having problems with the cigs) is a typical one for me...and it continues for me...for a while after staying sober.

Touching your skin and having it be sore?  It may be weird...but with all the alcohol we put in our bodies...we are bound to have some awful and weird symptoms when we abruptly remove it.

I have a condition which is sore muscles that I don't feel when drinking...but as soon as I stop...everything on me is sore to the touch on a daily basis. 

I always think my Day 2 and Day 3 are the toughest...Day 1 FOR ME...I'm usually so DONE with drinking that i am determined...but when Day 2 and 3 come and I'm FEELING the withdrawals....and scared of dying from DTs.....I'm a mess on those days.

A couple of times I couldn't make it thru Day 2 and drank.  I think you will need your benzos more in the next 2 days...so don't take too many tonight!

I CRINGE when I think about the withdrawals.

If your planning on stopping for good Steve..I strongly suggest CAMPRAL.

If your planning on drinking than they talk about Naltraxone and Nalmafrene (sp?).

But, I NEED something other than my will to stop right now....

I have 34 days right now...and the last 2 days...the mind is bothering me..but I have NOT been taking enough of the Campral....I keep forgetting....SO today I doubled up.

I honestly do not think about drinking AT ALL when I take it correctly. 

And THAT is WEIRD.

3

Hey, steverz! 

Glad to see you back and congrats on getting dry!

I haven't heard of that particular withdrawal symptom either. I used The Sinclair Method and gradually reduced my drinking to the point where most of my days are dry now. I've had 6 beers in the past month. 

Thought you were using Sinclair too, but maybe you were taking Naltrexone every day in the morning? I was taking it an hour before drinking, but only on drinking days (which was indeed every day for the first 5 months).

Anyway, glad to hear you're still moving towards your goal and I like your attitude about slips. Gotta stay focused on the big picture! 

4

Yes Steverz. The pain you describe is peripheral neuropathy which can occur during alcohol withdrawal. It is often down to a deficiency of Thiamine (Vitamin B1) and Thiamine tablets (which you can buy over the counter) can alleviate the pain.

5

Thank you so much Paul!! I have no idea what peripheral neuropathy is exactly aside from the thiamine deficiency.  Gonna have to read a bit about it.  It is really unpleasant.  Even air blowing over my arms or legs is driving me nuts.  

I loaded up on about 5,000mcg of B1 yesterday and today.  As well as a high potency B-complex mix vitamin.  Doctor called me in to tell me he was concerned that my blood test showed ZERO B vitamins.  He didn't let me leave without giving me an intra-muscular shot of B1 and B12 in the butt.  That was a few weeks ago.

Thank you for giving me the name of this strange symptom.  For anyone who's never experienced it before - it's the strangest feeling.

6

Hi ADE! 

Nice to hear from yoU! smile  Yep, I used TSM for a year.  I was, and still do, take it every morning religiously with my morning coffee.  I came down from drinking 1.14 liters of brandy a day, to about 400ml a day using TSM.  Just stopped entirely yesterday.  

Doctor still thinks the 400ml or so a day, to cold-turkey was a little risky cuz I have bipolar disorder, and last year experienced DT., so he just gave me a lot of diazepam and I lode-dosed today, and again tomorrow, then just 20mg twice a day for two weeks.

How long have you been dry now?  Or are you still weening-off?  Or quit?  Hope things are great with you!  Thanks for your kind msg!

Warm regards,steve

7

Hi Missy!

Thanks for writing!  Great to hear from you, and I appreciate your personal experiences you shared.  I agree, Day 1 is full of motivation and ambition eh?  Frankly I couldn't get by any attempt's first 24hrs without a copious few doses of benzofiazepine intervention.  I literally become a wreck, shaking like a leaf, tremors, really bad nausea, vertigo, cold/hot sweats, and that weird pain (which I just learned below, is called "peripheral neuropathy" which apparently is a deficiency in B1/thiamine.

34 you have under your belt now?!  My hat off to you!  Kudos!  I've only made it to 1.5 months, once.  That was my best record so far.  I found after the first 30-days, I seemed OK.  But anxiety struck, and I couldn't help running for a bottle sad  So I understand how your mind is prolly really getting to you around now, especially if you have any stress or anxiety that pops up in life while you're still getting by without the booze.

I asked my doc for Campral.  He said he was too uncomfortable giving it to me because I have bipolar disorder, and that Campral has been known to have a statistically significant side-effect of triggering serious depression for people like me.  He has me on mood stabilizers, the Naltrexone once a day, and he said to take as much diazepam as I need to get through the first week, then cut it back.  So far, I'm feeling OK.  i wouldn't say I'm feeling happy or overly positive, but I'm feeling...determined wink

You say you keep forgetting the Campral, I have a problem forgetting my Revia/naltrexone.  But I can tell ya, as 24hrs comes up for my next day's dose, I can feel its effects disappating and my cravings increasing.

I'm really glad Campral helps you!!  I wish I could try it, but I have some faith in the helpfullness of Naltrexone for me, so I'll try and work with that.  I have zero willpower around alcohol, so I definitely need it smile

I'm glad to know you're plugging along at over a month!!! Thanks for the inspirational info and motivation!

Regards, Steve

8

Oh..I did not know that you were diagnosed with bipolar.  Weird, I have serious (major depression) and my Dr. prescribed it to me.

However, my Dr does have a concern for me to take it because of suicidal thought increase. However, that risk...outweighs the benefit for me...I have had one suicide "talk" episode since taking it...but not since.

It really works steverz....I would be willing to try it if I were you and then if you became depressed he could stop it....because there are supposedly no withdrawal symptoms from stopping it abruptly..

Anyway

yea, I'm not a good pill taker....but never forgot to drink my booze!

Your so lucky your Dr. is prescribing benzos....Doctors around here are so scared of doing that because for people that drink...they are afraid of the liability of prescribing a drug that can cause respiratory failure when mixed with alcohol.

I've always been in hospital in the last 2 years for my withdrawal...so they give you the benzo's IV...lol (not funny).

Feeling determined as you are right now is powerful.  I'm happy for you....keep the PLUG IN THE JUG smile

9

Ah, there's a bit of a difference there, as TSM uses Naltrexone an hour before drinking. Unless you drink in the morning, then you'd hold off it til an hour before your first drink, per TSM. 

I was drinking over 80 beers per week when I started TSM (started it in January), so only 6 in the past month is a big difference for me. Only drank on 4 of those days, 26 were dry. The most I drank in one night was 2 1/2 beers. 

Yeah, almost half a liter of brandy a day isn't nothing (as you found out). Still, that's a third of what you were drinking before, so job well done there too! 

I recall when I dropped down to 3 pints a day, I was surprised that I still felt hungover in the morning. Well, 3 pints is 4 regular beers and I guess I should expect to feel it the next day if I drink most of a six-pack. Looking back, the last time I had that much was in the middle of May. TSM appears to be working exactly as it should.

Alch just doesn't call to me anymore, not like it did. If I really feel like one in the future, I'll take the pill an hour before and have one. Too soon to call a "cure", I think, but huge difference none the less. 

10

Yeah, I'd heard of it as tingling in the hands and feet.  It might interest you to research Benfotiamine too. How much B1 are you getting between the B1 tab and the B-complex? 5,000 mcg would be 5 mg. 

11

Geeze TSM worked great for you eh?!  Awesome!

Since I drank everyday (I would have a shot of brandy before my first coffee even), I always took my naltrexone ASAP after waking up.

I like how you said "alcohol doesn't really call to you anymore".  That's *sorta* my experience as well.  In the sense that if I had a glass of brandy in front of me that would normally take me 15ish minutes to drink, that glass slowly took longer and longer to finish.  I'd sorta forget that I had a glass of brandy in front of me.  That's what I love about Naltrexone, your drinking drops off without even trying.  The rest is willpower I guess.

I'm happy you've done so awesomely!  I need to hear these kinds of good outcome stories wink  So thank you!!

-steve

12

Ah, I understand now! Thought maybe your doc had you taking it in the morning every day whether you drank or not.

>>I like how you said "alcohol doesn't really call to you anymore".

Yeah, that's exactly the way it's supposed to work. There's a "memory" that gets set in the unconscious part of your brain, it's called the Striatum. For some, drinking really burns that memory in there and every time they drink, it releases endorphins that make that memory stronger and stronger. Naltrexone blocks the endorphins so the memory begins to fade. Eventually, it get to be like a tune that you can remember a few notes from, but you simply can't remember the whole tune anymore. 

One of the benefits of taking it only on drinking days is that on non-drinking days, your endorphin receptors are more sensitive and you can use that time to exercise or go for some other endorphin-releasing activity (watching a good comedy, even). That way your brain "learns"  a healthy memory/habit instead of the unhealthy one. In The Cure for Alcoholism, that's called "Selective Extinction". 

Anyway, it does my heart good to hear you doing so well, Steverz! Keep it up!

13

ADE:  

Am altogether taking 6,000mcg of B1 a day.  Is that enough do you think?

14

Hi

First of all, well done!!

Second, taking a lot of diazepam could be making you unco-ordinated - although the peripheral neuropathy sounds more likely.

How much diazepam are you taking?

If I take a lot, I get a good deal of itching and extreme clumsiness.

love Tess

15

Check with your doc to make sure, he may want you to dial it up a bit or give you another jab. He has to make sure it doesn't step on other stuff you're taking, so your doc or maybe even your pharmacist if the doc is hard to get hold of. 

16

*Much* appreciated ADE!

17

Hi tess!  The uncoordination actually becomes worse after the first couple weeks, after I've stopped taking the diazepam.  I agree no question diazepam gives one some coordination probs sometimes, this is a different kinda coordination feeling... it almost feels like the muscles over-reach for things... or you unwillingly use too much force to pick up a cigarette and break it by mistake....  wish I could explain it better...

For the first 2-3 days I'm lode dosing - 30-40mg 2 times a day.  Then drop down to 20mg 2 times a day, then 10mg 2 times a day, then just as needed.  I find diazepam to be one of the less potent of the benzos actually, and actually begged my doctor for a slightly larger prescription.

I could never go through withdrawals - at least not for the first two weeks, without moderate dose diazepam.  Ever. Never. wink  I did it once last year, and ended up in hospital with DT, complete with hallucinations, trembling I could barely walk... it was awful.  So never repeating that again!  

Anyone else reading this and are just planning to quit drinking, be careful if you don't tell your doctor first. If you're a heavy drinker, beg him for a diazepam prescription for your own safety in case you live alone or there is nobody around if you come down with DT.

Tess - you get the itches too eh?  I wondered if that might have just been me or me just being a hypocondriac or something ;-)  I'm guessing that must be a common one.  Clumsiness is my middle name for the first few weeks for me ;-)  Last month I made dinner, I had a few days under my belt, but got so frustrated trying to eat my snow peas on my plate that I just threw my whole dinner out I was so frustrated haha  I'm over 24hrs now and that clumsiness has more than set in that's for sure!

Are you dry now?  If so how long has it been for you?  Have you ever experienced thinking you see something out of the corner of your eyes while you withdraw?  I've had that a few times which is always un-nerving! 

18

hey..have you ever read about PAWS?

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome?

I heard about this in the hospital one time and it really put all my after symptoms in prespective....and the symptoms can last up to a year for some people.

Actually, clumsiness was a big one for me...when I tried to quit and I was working...I was CONVINCED....I couldn't function ever without alcohol...until I learned about PAWS.

Check it out!

19

Thanks for the reply!

I came to this site some months ago because my husband is an alcoholic and I wasn't understanding his condition. So many people on this site have helped me.

Diazepam -ah, yes. Different story. I've been addicted to it and all the other benzos for forty years and am finally coming off them.

I am not sure if the brain works in the same way for alcohol withdrawal or diazepam withdrawal, but I'm ALWAYS seeing things out of the corner of my eye.

I don't drink any alcohol - but I certainly was a very, very addicted person. I'm on a taper from the diazepam now.

My husband isn't doing very well - he has terrible liver function tests, and will probably die within a year - unless something persuades him to stop drinking, and even then it will be difficult because he's damaged so much of his body by now.

One interesting thing - I was forever falling over before i started my taper, and had poor motor control. Now I haven't fallen for months -so that has to have been the massive amounts of benzos and Zs which I was taking.

My last fall was really spectacular - it was in a pub car park, where we'd just had dinner. It was dark and unlit so that didn't help.

Suddenly, I tripped on something and I screamed and screamed because it hurt so much. I have arthritic knees and of course I landed on them.

Then I was yelling "I've broken my arm!!!!"

Help arrived in the form of a physiotherapist who happened to be passing by. She had me calmed down very quickly, told me I didn't have a broken arm, then told me to go home to bed and have a nice cup of tea.

We were staying at a bed and breakfast. When we came down for breakfast the next day my husband didn't want to go down - he thought that people would think that he'd been beating me up, I had so many bruises.

Anyway, that was the last fall. I hope. Well done on your seventieth attempt at ditching the booze. I really am rooting for everyone on this site - they helped me so much. Nice to get to know you. love T

20

Proud of you, Tess! Benzos sound every bit as nasty as alcohol to get rid of and it sounds like you're coming along well.