Les words fail me. will someone explain how bad one has to be please! Yet hubby was talking to a very intelligent young man a few weeks back when he went fishing, saying how he is going to use his PIP money to save for a car, he didn't seem to be in any pain, no walking aids needed, He was recently was awarded it...HOW?
The crux of the matter on how people qualify for benefits is down in my opinion to having a damn good Welfare Rights Officer working on your behalf. You only have to read the forum on Rightsnet (a forum specifically for WRO) to understand how well geared up they are into the law relating to benefits and how to best go about getting them even with conditions that most of us would think trivial by comparison.
Unfortunately in most areas in England, especially those such that are said to be 'wealthy regions of the South, you will find great difficulty in accessing this help.
It doesn't matter what your conditions are for ESA and PIP, it's how they limit you, how they affect your life that matters. In addition you have to 'fit' those difficulties to the descriptors that the government say are there to test sickness and/or disabilities.
In my case even with everything that is wrong with me I find it extremely hard in finding a descriptor that fits exactly to my needs.
I've harped on about walking distance for PIP - it seems that people are able to prove to the DWP that they have measured distances that makes them eligible. I cant walk to the end on my drive and on estimation I thought it was about 17 metres - when I measured the actual distance it was 21/2 metres. No doubt people would measure 19 metres and say that the was the maximum. I could only give a guess at my assessments which was interpreted by the assessor as to mean 200 metres!
It's how you fill out the claim form, what you put on the claim form making sure it matches to the descriptors and above all having medical evidence that need not prove them but simply disproves the alternatives.
In the end I am utterly useless at filling in these claim forms - there is no decent or qualified help where I live so like most I had to go it alone.
Guaranteed Pension Credit (means tested) is for those who used to be 60 or over. Now it's 63 I think.
GPC is affected by other money coming in and capital above £10,000.
It's also affected by 'premiums' - extras such as for carers or disabled etc.
Losing DLA - especially MRC, means no one can claim to be your carer so you lose that premium. Losing DLA - MRC meant that as we (wife and myself - she gets Attendance Allowance) the couple disability premium is lost. Losing these premiums means that you don't need as much money to live on. Hence GPC is stopped. This then stops the mortgage help as well as the 100% CT help.
All of these being stopped were a knock on effect of the DWP closing my DLA award. DLA + GPC + CT + Mortgage help = £300 a week less money.
The government see it that I am now not disabled and consequently have no extra needs, so we need less money to live.
Les your comment about 'knowing how to fill the claim form in' is probably the most important piece of advice anyone applying for benefits could get.
Time and again on this forum we see posters making the classic mistake of believing ESA/PIP is awarded because you simply suffer with a condition.
We often see the quote 'how bad has it got to be?' (See Susan). To put it simply your condition has to affect you enough so that you need a reasonably high amount of personal care or restricts your mobility to certain thresholds.
That's why filling in the claim form is so important as it is the claimants chance to explain how their condition affects them.
Most claimants make the classic mistake of believing the medical evidence will speak for itself. WRONG! The claimant MUST explain the affect of their illness/disability and refer it to the medical evidence and then link it to a descriptor. The assessor is not there to do that job for you they are there to assess what you have written. If a claimant fails to explain then the assessor will make assumptions on that basis. We often see claims they have lied, the truth is more likely that the form hasn’t be filled in with enough information for the assessor to award enough points.
Of course the real villains are the DWP/Tory Government who are fully aware of this and are happy for it to continue because 1. It keeps the benefit bill down and 2. ATOS and the other assessment companies cop the blame.
Anthony in my sons case they def did lie, they said my son arrived on his own and drove himself to his assesment, when the truth was a friend drove him there and went in with him. My son couldnt have possibly driven the distance as the assesement was in another town and his back condition would have made the journey very painfull for him to drive. They also lied on another account, when our son appealed and said they had lied they wernt interested.
I agree with Les about the real villains knowing this is happening and happy for it to continue, they all need to experience a crippling or debilitating ailment, then have to live on what we have left after losing our DLA and not getting PIP, then be told you cant keep your mobilty car either. Its easy to judge and make rules for other people when your sitting pretty, rich and painfree.
Susan you may as well not appeal if your argument is the assessor 'lied' as the DWP and Tribunal take a dim view. You are better off stating that the assessor is mistaken and then explain why that on the balance of probabilities the assessor's 'opinion' was wrong.
I understand how you feel from what you have posted but we must also take into account that the assessor is not here to defend himself and give their reasons.
I have taken time to look at how these assessor's work and the rationale to their thinking. They are encouraged to make decisions which are 'in their opinion'; based on the evidence before them. Now I obviously don't know how the assessor came to the 'opinion' that your son was capable of driving to the assessment.
However I can 100% state that if you believe the assessor is wrong then in your appeal should be that 'on the balance of probabilities' your son can't drive to assessments because of his back condition I refer you to the supporting medical evidence.
Further you have to understand they don’t know your son like you do and are coming to conclusions based on what evidence is in front of them which is not always clear.
What claimants constantly overlook is that this is the assessors Achilles heal. I simply worded appeal using the balance of probabilities as your weapon of choice will win nearly every time, calling people liars is a simple appeal suicide note. It is a good habit to not call people liars but rather that they are mistaken.
Point taken Anthony, your right of course and if this was my appeal i personally wouldnt aggrivate them by saying they lied. Its not the first time ive read on hear about others being victims also writing down inaccurate facts and presuming. why not just ask? Its clearly seen by many of the stories its not a one off, You dont have to be a genius to see that these poor people clearly arnt capable of working, if we can see it wont cant they, or this what not its all about?
Les so the government take away our DLA and then decide we are no longer disabled because of their actions!
I just see this in my research
Half a million disabled people would lose out on benefits through the government’s reform to disability living allowance, it revealed today.
Proposals to replace DLA for people of working-age with a new personal independence payment (PIP) would result in 500,000 fewer people receiving the benefit by 2015-16. apparently the dead line is now 2018.
if proposals are to replace DLA with PIP of working age then where does it leave us who are now on state pension and passed working age?
Hi Rachel on what ive read WCA stands for work capability assessment so all assessments should simply be asking could this person now work and thats it, yes or no. Ive not read of one person so far on hear who meets this criteria. As you say how is your partner in any way capable of work, how can anyone say yes he is and give him no points ! Do you honestly think the job centre would think him capable of work, who would employ him, its a straight forward case as far as im concerned, Doh !
Hi Susan wev bn to the job centre today as was advised for him to sign on jobseekers as I explained everything and how my partner is the bloke can't understand how we have ended up applying for jobseekers I explaind that by going on jobseekers my partner contradicting himself by telling ESA he is not fit for work but then signing on saying he is fit for work so the adviser advised me to try for income support as I'm my partners carer just while we get the mandatory reconsideration sorted out, I also said who would employ my partner with the medical problems he's got and he agreed!!
Firstly Susan I wouldn't argue that there are poor assessors.
Unfortunately claimants fail to understand the difference between a 'lie' and an 'error'. One is a malicious act the other is simply poor judgment so the DWP and Tribunal Service take the view it is out of order to accuse someone of committing a malicious act without overwhelming evidence. This has the perverse outcome of allowing another injustice slip through (the benefit appeal)
I'll try and explain how I see the problem. ATOS are service providers for the DWP who are known as 'clients'
The DWP call all the shots and they tell ATOS how to assess benefit claimants using a set of guide lines for both ESA & PIP. In the case of ESA there is an overriding goal to identify things that the claimant ‘can’ do, rather than what they ‘can’t’. This is why some people are found fit for work when they are clearly very ill. The assessor probably knows that as well but is hampered if they can’t fit claimants into a descriptor and has to award them ZERO points.
As explained earlier this is sometimes the claimants fault because they don’t fully explain their condition and how it affects them instead believing that the medical reports supplied will speak for itself. Assessors are not allowed to advise claimants on their claim and MUST only act on what is in front of them. So it is possible for a terminally ill cancer patient who has failed to give details of how the cancer affects them but has supplied details of diagnosis to be found fit for work.
Of course this leads to all kinds of bad publicity which ATOS and the other service providers take the brunt of because they are paid to. Meanwhile the Tory Government boasts that it is ‘cutting the welfare budget’ and gain more popularity with the electorate.
I totally agree with you Anthony, I think that's where we went wrong the assessor stated that my partner can do new tasks and carry them out to the end and also take messages from a person which he struggles to take in new information and as soon as he's walk away from someone who has spoke to him he has forgotten what they've said, we didn't explain this to the assessor 1 we just assumed he'd know this with the scans and 2 we felt like he just wanted a yes/no answer
If you were in receipt of DLA on the 8th April 2013 and under 65, you will have to move over to PIP.
Like with DLA, you can get PIP after you turn 65 provided that you were receiving it before you turned 65.
The only exempt classes where they keep their DLA is (1) being under 16 & (2) being over 65 on the 8th April 2013.
The rest have to transfer to PIP.
I was coming up to my 68th birthday (June 2016) when they 'offered' me PIP.
Because of the inefficiencies within the DWP set up, they closed down my DLA award and cancelled my right to move to PIP when they 'lost' two letters that I had sent them.
Of course PIP is more about saving money than anything else. The government were quite open when they said that they wanted to reduce what was being paid out under DLA by 20% Of course this means that there will be losers overall - that was the intention.
Finally for those that can't get PIP and are over 65 they can make a claim for Attendance Alowance. There is no mobility element so no Motability car.
Supposedly it is a lot easier to get AA - the government quote that the pass rate for first time applicants is just over 80% of all claims made.
Then both my wife and myself are in the unfortunate other odd 20%. bracket.
It took my wife three attempts to get AA - she was 71 when it was awarded. And I made a claim a few months ago (as a new claimant) and received a definite NO - with an explanation that the reason was because I have no needs beyond what the ordinary person has at my age - 68!!! I wish.
Rachel you can now submit that as an additional evidence for the MR. Explain that your partner was unaware of the importance of filling the form in with such detail due to his disability.
Take the oppotunity to then explain on his/hers behalf and refer the Decision maker to the scans/medical record as supporting evidence.
Then state he fits the descriptors for covering distance and not being able to carry tasks
I fully understand where your coming from Anthony but what is this descriptor ? Surley anyone suffering from cancer couldnt give the impression all is well and they are fit for work unless of course they are in very early stages like stage 1 where as 4 is very bad and terminal in most cases. Who ever thought out this descriptor well 10 out or 10 for coming up with a regime if this is the right word thats difficult for most to fit into, crafty and clever or what. Id like to know more about this descriptor if possible. Thanks for all your replys so far Anthony.
Sue
Being sick/disabled has nothing to do with being awarded ESA. Being awarded ESA is all about fitting the descriptors to the difficulties and then gaining enough points.
As an example: say someone is seriously ill and disabled they would be found fit for work if there is no evidence to prove that they fit enough descriptors. On the other hand someone who for whatever reason cannot get something out of the top pocket of a jacket then they will qualify AND be put in the Support Group.
So you see illness or disability has no real bearing on being accepted as unfit for work.
Type in descriptor rules for pip on google, the whole questions and points charts comes up, moderator is holding back my reply link to enable all to see it
Hi Susan
Both ESA and PIP have descriptors. Descriptors are activities which if you can't perform or need assistance with you will be awarded points. Score enough points and benefit is awarded. They are easily found with a Google search and cover everything from raising your hand up to a top pocket, to cooking, dressing, washing and mobility.
If for example a cancer sufferer with stage 4 applied for benefit but provided no explanation to how the illness affected them, then they would-not score any points. As explained it’s the Claimants responsibility to provide an explanation it is not the assessor’s job to do that for them.
That's normal but most of us have seen those documents many times lol
And theres me thinking id found something new and usefull lol , would help if we were allowed to show it on hear for all to see, why the holding it back, this is a discussion about benefits section after all