Lichen Planus and Vegetarian

Skin, nail and hair health
1

Two years ago I woke up with OLP.  I believe I had LP for eight years prior without being diagnosed.  For over a year I have been on an immune suppressent which keeps LP/OLP under control. 

My sister-in-law believes it's because I'm a vegetarian.  So now I'm curious as to how many of you are meat eaters or vegetarians.  I've read some post which suggest the paleo diet, but I've also read articles which say your immune system cannot be boosted by drugs and diet.  I'm interested in any thoughts on this subject.  Please state whethere you are a meat eater or not so I can get a consensus.  Thank you!

2

I am a meat eater. As well as the T2 diabetes I have an under active thyroid and I believe the latter can cause auto immune issues. If, when I see the dermatologist next Friday, he confirms that my skin problem is caused by LP I will ask him if the thyroid problem plays a part. I read a book when younger that said once into the thirties it was difficult for a person's digestive system to adapt to vegetarian lifestyle but I do support and applaud those who have made the change like, for instance, my grandson's fiancée. Good luck to you. Personally I just want to stop having the urge to constantly scratch myself to pieces. 

3

Meat eater. One of the few things I can safely eat without bad effects. Prior to this, I was vegetarian. That diet may have been catalyst for immune disorder.

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Hi Sasr

I have had OLP for nearly 2 years. I eat chicken and fish but very little red meat. Can't see the connection myself but as

M open to suggestions.

My consultant wants me to start taking immunesuppressants but I am very reluctant. How have you been since taking them if you don't mind me asking and will you be on them for ever?

5

I have met a few that feel there is a strong connection with having non veg and developing erosions. I seldom eat red meat. I used to have chicken and fish in moderation. 

Since I developed OLP I have personally avoided chicken; esp as it gets lodged in between my teeth and is difficult to clean. I did not want to aggravate the oral hygeine. P.S:  My gums have receded with OLP and so lot of gap between my teeth

My current flare up took place 4 weeks back and the only change in diet was I had fish for 3-5 days as I was in my home town which is a coastal city. I have started with eggs and some chicken which does not seem to affect my condition at the moment. I shall experiment with a fish only diet when I am better. 

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I'm a meat eater.  But mostly fish like salmon and good dairy, such as unprocessed greek yogurt (I have no dairy issues).  In my 30s for about 8 years I was mainly ovo-lacto vegetarian. Now in my 60s.

Now I try to eat an anti-inflammatory diet, especially with few refined starches.  I have low blood pressure (good), low to moderate blood sugar (good) and no other problems except an extremely hyper-reactive immune system (asthma and an intolerance to any foreign substances in my body like any type of stitches).

Confused as to why people here continue to think their immune system is "weak" and that is why they have LP or OLP and other autoimmune diseases, when the exact opposite is true.

Sorry, but this is mostly genetic people, with maybe a drug or environmental trigger.  Your immune system served you very well in pre-modern times.  Now it doesn't have anything to keep it under control, such as lots of nasty pathogens and parasites, so it starts attacking you.  I don't live in the UK (in US), but have UK heritage.  I have noticed from the literature that many OLP patients from the UK have HLA B57, the elite controller gene (as I do).  This gene makes you almost immune (or a long-term nonprogressor) to the HIV virus and the hepatitis C virus.  Our ancestors may have been immune to the smallpox virus and/or bubonic plague.  The downside is that you have super aggressive T-Cells that may attack you as well.

Plus I have the HLA "super B-8" allelles (the Scandanavian/British Isles HLA genotype) that has a strong association with autoimmune diseases.  Maybe these genes were great for our viking and celtic ancestors, but problematic in modern times.

Liver, celiac and thryoid disease have been associated with LP and OLP.  So that is important.  If you have celiac disease (also associated with northern European heritage), then you should, follow a gluten free diet.  Liver diseases, including hemochromatosis (also common in northern Europeans), can trigger LP/OLP, so get treated for that and treat your liver kindly (watch alcohol consumption; drug use, includings NSAIDS).  Get checked for fatty liver disease as well, as that can cause problems.  Get thyroid issues (under or over) treated.

The best diet is one that is balanced.  The vitamin most associated with autoimmune issues is low Vitamin D levels, so be sure to get enough of that one in particular.

And good luck.  Unfortunately, you may do everything "right" and still be afflicted.  Life is random and often unfair.

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Thank you for your response. I became a vegetarian at 49, and I am now 63.  I am in excellent health and take no medications except for the immune suppressant for LP/OLP.  Currently it keeps it under control for me, but I want off of it as soon as I can.  i don't want to take any drugs.   I feel for you with your itching and the progress of this illness. I don't think being a vegetarian makes any difference, but thought it would be interesting to investigate.

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Thanks for answering.  I will be interested in any other responses, as I don't really feel being a vegetarian is what brought this on, but I'm not discounting it.  This is my search for if it is a factor.  I would eat (organic) meat immediately if I thought it would make this go away.  I've had allergic reactions beginning as a child and off and on over the years, but nothing like this.  It's so frustrating not knowing.

9

Thank you for your response.  I don't see the connection to being a meat eater or not but I am interested in all opinions.  I take mycophenolate.  I've been on it for about 18 months.  My doctor said he'll back me off of it if I go through a three month period without flareups.  So far, that hasn't happened.  But it does keep it in check and makes my life easier.  I am very interested in getting off of it when possible as I doubt it will be affordable next year when I get medicare (I live in U.S.).  I will say I have not had any other illnesses since I've  been on it so I don't feel my immune system is compromised.  I am, however, an avid hand washer and try to avoid sick people.

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Thanks Sasr. Do you mind if I ask which immunosuppressives you are on?

i really don't want to go on them. Do you think they work if you kep having flare ups. 

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I appreciate your answer.  I feel for you as it appears you struggle with your OLP more than I presently do.   I worry about it progressing to the point of receding gums.  A couple of times I have worried my nails were going to break open, but so far they have not.  I quit eating red meat long before I gave up all meat in 2001.  I don't feel being a vegetarian caused this, but I intend to investigate it further.  I pray your illness calms down and you are able to cope better with it.

 

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Thanks Sasr ! I'm a meat

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Thank you for your response, which I found quite interesting.  Yes, it's an over active immune system not a weak one that is causing the problem.I also live in the US (TN). I am sure I have UK heritage generations back. You have educated me on HLA B57, as I have not read about that before. 

How were you tested?  Did you pay for an independent test? 

I am curious as to if I have it, as well.    Other than LP/OLP, I have no indication of another illness.  I am in excellent health, and I take no medications.  I don't drink alcohol.  I do take a multi-vitamin, and additional Folic acid, Vitamin D and Biotin.  The only other problem I have, which may be related to my immune system, is my hair falls out at an alarming rate.  It does grow back, but then starts the process all over again within six months intervals.  This started back in 1990, but it was after I went through a shocking incident where I just shut down for a few days.  Unfortunately it never stopped. 

As you say, sometimes it is just random.

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My ancestors were mostly from NC and VA, dating back to the 1600s.  So with the English, Welsh and Scots-Irish in TN as well, you may have those genes.

I have an unusual blood type, so I give blood regularly at a center with a cancer treatment facility, especially for children.  Sometimes they have asked the blood donors if they would be willing to do a bone marrow donation if needed, so they tested me, and that is how I found out.  Have not been asked for that yet.  The HLA (you inherit one set of genes from each parent) is what is used to test compatibility for bone marrow, kidney, etc., transplants.

Because the HLA B-8 is associated with celiac disease (and Type 1 diabetes, autoimmune thyroid, and several other autoimmune diseases) I paid about $100 on my own for that test.  I had read many articles on OLP, and my mouth was really bad after going off the pred, and I was desperate for anything that might help. Some of the articles said as many as 30% of people with OLP had celiac disease. I did worry it would come back positive and I would need to go on a very restrictive diet, but it was completely normal.  So as to restrictive diet - good it was negative; as to horrible OLP - bad there was not some hope for a quick fix.

I don't drink either, but a sibing and a cousin have hemochromatosis, and I had elevated iron for about 10 years. Now it's normal again, don't know why. I too try to eat right, exercise, etc. and take many of the same vitamins that you do.  Other than the LP/OLP, asthma and arthritis, I'm pretty healthy for mid 60s.

I was upset when the rheumatologist I saw insisted I must have hep-C to have developed the OLP.  I told her I give blood and they test regularly for that but she insisted.  Of course, the test came back negative (I happily lead a very, very dull life and there was no chance I was exposed to hep-C).  Turns out less than 5% of all people with OLP have hep-C anyway.

I also lost a lot of hair last fall.  It came back, but so much fell out over one month I was getting panicky.  There is a form of LP that causes alopecia, and I have the off and on head rash, so one more thing to worry about!

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Thank you. That was interesting. And Yes we have an over-active immune system. That doesn't necessa

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Doesn't necessarily mean it knows to react when we need it. It's confused. It reminds me of Don Quixote. My Helper T cells are off fighting Windmills when they should be fighting other things. I have Arthritis and Fibro. Apparently it also means I can't type well (see above). I also have Lymphocytic Colitis which looks just like Lichen Planus' microscopic slides except it's in the mucus membranes of the colon instead. I cannot eat anything good for me. Except meat. I cheat all the time. Never was Carnivore on my bucket list. I pay for cheating. I AM OF ANGLO-VIKING DESCENT. JUST 2nd GENERATION AMERICAN. Maiden name was Knight. My Grandparents on mother's side were Swedish. I wonder if this is X Recessive Gene dominant. Thus more females than males. How did you learn about HLA B57 Super HLA 8 alleles ??? I would love to know. I think you are truly onto something here and want to help/know more. I have a Med Center to work with. Regarding genes, I just needed to know a specific and you supplied that!!

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The scalp LP doesn't necessarily lead to Alopecia. There are two kinds of scalp LP. One attacks hair follicles and one doesn't. I hate Scalp LP though. The only thing worse is inside of ears and the eyelids.

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QUININE works by NOT suppressing the immune system, but rather by stopping the cells from replicating, including immune cells. That's how they stop Malaria and let the initial flare up run itself out -- there's no 2nd generation to propogate the disease. (Shingles virus med works the same way). That's why those classifications of meds work on Lupus. Now those new, synthetic cousins of QUININE are being used for other auto-immune diseases. There are side-effects but, not as bad as QUININE in its pure form from the Cachona Tree. The side effects of any of them, to me, are not as bad as the immune-suppressing drugs.

I hope this doesn't get deleted. A lot of my stuff does cuz I mention specific drugs. I tried not to mention brand names this time. But a Cochona Tree is a Cochona Tree. There's no way to get around it.

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The more I think about it the more unsure I am about trying a Vegetarian diet brought this all on. I know I had Lymphocytic Colitis and Arthritis prior to trying that diet. The LC hadn't been diagnosed yet. I'd have to wait another 20 years for that. I think this is more complicated than diet. I really really want to stay in touch with this particular group of followers/answers. I'm in my 60's, sick since 30's. Not diagnosed til 50's except for Arthritis . That was 40's. I'm in U.S of ANGLO-VIKING descent. Have multiple autoimmune disorder. Do not feel, look, nor act my age. Refuse to let this wayward syndrome get me down. Mother died of Lupus.

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My aunt, great-grandmother and great-aunt were named Wilhemina. As well as, Closena or in one case, Klausena.