Lichen planus - will I ever be able to have sex again?

Hello everyone,

I have been struggling to have sex with my husband for almost a year now. I have excruciating pain everytime we try.

He is a great person and understanding but there is no hiding the fact that it is a struggle for him (and me) that we are not able to have sex. The pain is incredible and as much as I try to grin and bare it, it is impossible to achieve penetration.

I was diagnosed with LS just a week ago after a biopsy and have been given dermovate to use once a night for 4 weeks. Had anyone used this and seen an improvement with vaginal pain? How long did the medication take to work?

Has anyone had severe sexual pain and overcome it after medication?

I'm desperate, I'm 26 and can't spend the rest of my life not having sex. What if I would like children later?

It's ruining my life. Please help. X

Hi A1,

My heart is with you. I don't know about L. Planus, but at your age the dermovate should work. I'm one of the few here who've had it all our lives (I'm 62, but started having painful sex at 22 or earlier). Looking back it was my second husband who wanted very frequent sex, that was when I started having a tear in my perimeum almost all the time. The hard fact is that the friction and bodily fluids of sex can really make a flare-up worse. There's a phenomenon called the Koebner Effect where skin trauma triggers the LS (and psoriasis, which I also have) to flare.

I still had two kids in my thirties (pregnancy hormones seem to make LS go into remission, so natural childbirth is not a problem. I've had long periods of remission over my lifetime. The thing I can probably attribute them to is low stress, a calm contented time.

There's a lot you can do to settle the LS down. I've learned a lot on this forum and took these notes to my Gynae appointment a couple of weeks ago, so she could share them with her 1000 (!) rural patients.

Dr. Andrew Goldstein 1200 patients with lichen sclerosus, the most in the world. His wife is a dermatologist. He attends all her meetings that cover the vulva.

We have a thread here where there's a link to the video:

https://patient.info/forums/discuss/dr-goldstein-lecture-271556

He says forcefully that it takes this 'ultra-potent' steroid (8000 times more potent than hydrocortisone) to treat the incredible amount of inflammation way down deep in the 'basement' layer of this extremely thickened skin. Thinning is actually part of the treatment strategy. LS skin is not thin but extra thick, because it's all scar tissue and hardly any skin cells. The white blood cells that cause inflammation are way down deep at the bottom of this thick tissue.

1. Soak in warm water for twenty minutes first to soften the tissue

2. Rub, rub, rub, the prescribed cream/ointment in for about 90 seconds.

Stop worrying about thinning the skin. It's way too thick! That's one of the treatment strategies of clobetasol. We want the skin to get thinner.

Use the ointment, not the cream, because the cream tends to stay near the top and not penetrate.

Quite a few women find the base of generic Clobetasol irritates. Brand-name (Dermovate) costs double, but it's enough for a whole year. 20-minute warm pre-soaks soften the keratinized skin to help the meds penetrate deeply.

Best advice: don't wash down there with soap. Plain water is all you need.

Don't wear tight pants and wear cotton panties.

Just recently we've learned from our member who's a doctor:

"There was correspondence in the British Journal of Dermatology recently regarding the cause of LS, and Dr. Chris Bunker from University College Hospital in London, who is a dermatologist seemingly interested in male genital dermatology. He suggests that it is likely that LS may be due to "chronic occluded exposure of susceptible  epithelium to urine". This means  urine on sensitive areas may be affecting the tissues and causing inflammation which leads in the longer term to the sclerosis, which then causes either itching , soreness and lack of the normal elasticity which leads to tearing.  The reason for this suggestion is that males circumcised at birth never get LS,males never get it around the anus, LS appears around surgical scars and genital piercings, and also around urostomies (where the urine tubes are brought out on the skin after bladder removal). Circumcision also seems to cure males with the condition.  It is suggested that some genetic predisposition of the skin "barrier" , such as occurs in eczema, allows it to occur in some women and not others. This genetic predisposition may explain the connection with autoimmune diseases. "

So, applying vaseline before urination seems like a good practice.

Grinning and bearing it is a good way to accelerate the scarring and atrophy. You don't want that. 'Yes!' brand oily lubricant has been recommended by many women here. They have it at big health food stores. One woman is trying a female condom.

But you need to heal before trying sex again. Please explore the threads below this one, there's a wealth of good advice and women younger than I talking about how they handle the sexual side of relationships.

Job One for you is to try to stop freaking out (I've done it and it only contributes more to the flare-up). See if there's some kind of settling, centering practice you can learn to get calm when emotions arise. One woman just yesterday is taking a 8 week Mindfulness-based Stress Reduction course. I have experience with that and there are teachers everywhere.

My personal best thing has been cutting way back on sugar. It seems to be like gasoline on the flames. I got much better very quickly.

Do post more, we're so happy you came here. We're all here for you. One of the most stressful aspects is having a yucky secret. Here you can talk.

Couple more thoughts. My gynae said to watch that the ointment is very runny when it melts, that it doesn't go on perfectly good skin next to the LS. I think if I were as you as you are, I'd wear those little finger condoms so the ointment/cream doesn't penetrate your finger skin. Not a huge deal, but this is the long run you're looking at.

There are surgeries, which you'll see in Dr. G's presentation, to undo scarring and fusing that can narrow the vaginal opening and cover the clitoris. In the past they've said that it just grows back, but Dr. G's way of applying the meds make him confident that this won't happen.

Geez, I wish this site would let us edit our posts!

I meant as 'young' as you are. and 'uncover' the clitoris.

Hello 

Morrell makes a lot of excellent points for you A1! one other aspect you may want to consider is asking for vulval dilators- or go to a sex shop and find a very thin dildo that is about your size or a tad larger and use when you are VERY well moisturised. It is essential to keep your tissues as flexible as possble- it is the tight dryness that causes the tearing- if indeed you ARE tearing. Is the pain on entry or do you go into spasm durng penetration? there are differnt solutions for each cause. Where are you? un the UK or elsewhere? many threads on this site are from all over the world so the treatments available differ. Perhaps you can ask your GP to refer you to a sex therapist- they are wonderful at finding satisfying solutions for you and your husband. In Birmingham in the UK the hospital contacted all those they had on their books with LS so that a support group could be formed - It really did help There were people of all ages withthe condition and it was there that i attended the session on sexual difficulties and the organiser arranged for a group of us to go to a sex shop - who were forewarned and they were wonderful non judgemental and had a host of toys and suggestions for those who needed advice. 

The biggest issue is to try and reduce your stress levels - because fear of sex will make you tense and that is the last thing you need.

Good luck and i really hope you can get this sorted- you are so young, and if you ARE in the UK - keep nagging your GP - in other countries it can depend on your insurance cover

So to sum up bathe and soak as Morrell suggested and apply the steroid in between wash with cool water pat dry apply moisturiser cover area with barrier cream Drink lots of clear fluids - it makes the urine less strong, dont strain when opening your bowels- and try and laugh- the endorphins will help you 

I find warm water (drying off properly) before the application of Dermovate is actually more effective, but I support everything else that has been said in this thread.  All excellent advice!  I found also a statistic that shows that it is much more common for younger women such as yourself to get rid of this condition altogether, than it is for post menopausal women such as myself.  Find a doctor you can trust and apply the Dermovate to protect you skin long term.

Above all handle the stress - that, as has been said, is the worst thing for this.  Kind regards

Margaret

Hi Sue and Morrell,

Thank you so much for your replys, it's good not to feel so alone. I can't be open and honest about my lichen sclerosis to anyone except my husband which makes me feel very alone and slightly depressed. I am spiralling into sadness and I cannot see a way out. I'm 26! Why has this happened to me?? I am so newly diagnosed and am completely freaking out that I am bound to a life of celebusy and I am taking my poor 28 year old husband along for the ride.

When we try to have sex my husband can penetrate me around 2.5inches before I get the most excruciating pain. Why is he able to penetrate me this much but no more? My gyne said that this is due to the scar tissue being able to stretch slightly by not enough for full penetration. Have you had experience with this at all?

It's worth saying (and now it makes sense) that for 2.5 years I have been tearing everytime I went to have a poo which I now realise is lichen sclerosis towards my back passage. I have been wrongly diagnosed for quite sometime which has allowed my problem to escalate.

I will absolutely ask for vagina dialators (I am in the UK) and I will also be sure to cover my finger whilst I use the steriod cream. I will also be sure to cut out sugar a little more as per your advice.

Right now my vagina is burning and seems to be worsening rather than improving on this steriod. Has anyone every used emuaid (not sure if this is correct spelling ) it's a homeopath remedy that I would need to get shipped from the USA.

Thank you for all of your help.

X

Hi Many on the site do use Emu creams or ointment with apparently good effect. and NO you will not have to be celibate for the rest of your life, just take things a bit carefully while you have a lfare up. The Dermovate does sting a bit but it does work there are other steroids but not quite so good. Others use cocnut oil with seemingly good results. Do try and keep your bowel movements soft but try not to use laxatives the faecal fluids will cause burning, Lots of leafy vegetables and broccoli and cabbage and LOTS of water and exercise - walking is excellent to get the gut moving smoothly

I am 70 and single (divorced)so your penetrative issues dont really affect me now- others on the site will be able to help I am sure. Do keep the moisturisers into your vulva and vagina entrance. Wash withan aqeous ointment if your gynae hasnt prescribed something like Diprobase which i find an excellent washing and moisturising substance

I found telling friends about The Itch in the Undercarriage was an 'easier' way to tell - and I think many go undiagnosed or they put it down to thrush . Also DO take a mirror and check yourself out regularly. And tell your friends to do so too People are not aware of their normal anatomy - it is just as important as checking your breasts .Any sore patches that are not healing - take yourself of to the medics as soon as you can. Take heart it CAN get better - but keep away from all sorts of stress- laugh as much as you can

Best wishes Sue

Hi Sue and Morrell,

Thank you so much for your replys, it's good not to feel so alone. I can't be open and honest about my lichen sclerosis to anyone except my husband which makes me feel very alone and slightly depressed. I am spiralling into sadness and I cannot see a way out. I'm 26! Why has this happened to me?? I am so newly diagnosed and am completely freaking out that I am bound to a life of celebusy and I am taking my poor 28 year old husband along for the ride.

When we try to have sex my husband can penetrate me around 2.5inches before I get the most excruciating pain. Why is he able to penetrate me this much but no more? My gyne said that this is due to the scar tissue being able to stretch slightly by not enough for full penetration. Have you had experience with this at all?

It's worth saying (and now it makes sense) that for 2.5 years I have been tearing everytime I went to have a poo which I now realise is lichen sclerosis towards my back passage. I have been wrongly diagnosed for quite sometime which has allowed my problem to escalate.

I will absolutely ask for vagina dialators (I am in the UK) and I will also be sure to cover my finger whilst I use the steriod cream. I will also be sure to cut out sugar a little more as per your advice.

Right now my vagina is burning and seems to be worsening rather than improving on this steriod. Has anyone every used emuaid (not sure if this is correct spelling ) it's a homeopath remedy that I would need to get shipped from the USA.

Thank you for all of your help, margret, Sue and Morrell. Amazing advice, thanks for your support. 

Just a thought, Sue, if I were to apply diprobase at different times of the day is this ok? I just put my steriod cream on at the end of the day after a shower with no soap. Can I apply the diprobase when I see fit? It doesn't undo any of the steroid effects?

I use it every time i have a pee- i have small squeezy bottles into which i decant the diprobase for travelling in my hand bag so that it is handy - i have the pumps in all the bathrooms and bedroom as well

Dont use the wet wipes they contain chemicals that can cause a problem

Many use vaseline as a barrier - i havent found this necessary cos of the copious amounts of Diprobase i use- I also use it for washing my face and body too - makes my skin feel good. If you can listen to the Dr Goldstein talk - it does take an hour and has graphic slides - but it is well worth the time. Have a bath and soak for about 20 minutes so that your skin is softened. Then gently massage in about a pea sized or slightly larger into the vulva and perineum taking NINETY seconds to do so yes a minute and a half- (perhaps your husband could do this for you?) Then moisturise  then barrier ointment. Re read Morrells thread she explains what Dr G said very well

It is better to have a bath as showers dont get to the important little places so well and you do need to remove the old stuff off before putting on the new. Apply the Dermovate - Clobetasol- as prescribed by your gynae - but do look at the website for Dr Goldstein - Alan the moderator will give you the link if you cant find it

By the way only minute amounts of emu oil are needed apparently a little goes a very long way! I had some in Australia - they swear by it for wrinkles cuts and any other ailment you can imagine But they didnt say how much to use and i disliked smelling like a roast chicken all day as i was fairly generous with the stuff. Try chemists of health food shops - you may find H&B have it rather than getting it from the US

 

There are lubricants that will help when having sex;  perhaps it might help to talk to a doctor - or nurse, so that they can advise you on products to use.  Sorry I can't be of more help, but I am in the same boat as you!

A1, I think Dr. Goldstien suggests waiting awhile after applying the post-bath dermovate. Then put your oily moisturiser on.

Here's the link to the thread that has the video link.

https://patient.info/forums/discuss/dr-goldstein-lecture-271556

Thanks, everyone. I appritiate it so much. I have got to get myself together and hope that this treatment works. I fear my husband will leave me eventually. I am hopeful that one day I will be able to have sex again and slow down the affects of lichen slerosis. I have begun watching the lecture - it is incredibly interesting. I will conclude it tonight.

Thanks everyone xx

I know, A1, it certainly feels like a raw deal in life. If I could just be slightly racy here, before I met my current husband, I tried to have sex with a very nice guy (who has since found Ms. Right) and he had the strangest cone-shaped penis. So I had the same 2.5 inch experience. The weekend we spent together my psoriasis just went wild. At the time I had no idea about LS (well, I had seen photos online, self-diagnosed, then ignored it as just another aspect of psoriasis).

Unfortunately I can now look in the hand mirror and see that the scarring came from having sex while I was already torn or raw. I wish I had known about dilators decades ago!

If I were young and diagnosed and with a guy I really loved (So I hadn't become bitter about sexual demands) I'm sure I'd be happy to do 'other things' in bed. Your guy sounds like a keeper.

Oh... Other things... Well, I can't say I am particularly experienced or confident in the bedroom as I have been with my husband for 10 years and after meeting so young our sex life might be described as 'vanilla'. So for the past hour I have been looking at 'sex without percent ration' on the internet. It's a mine field and so far I'm getting 'oral and massage' great - but hardly the real thing! To be honest I crave the intermacy too, I feel I need to please him and this is the way to do it. I also feel the need to be loved and mostly this is how men show it.

gosh, what a way to put down all my feelings, I'm literally am just spilling them out to you! 

A question about dial actors if I may? Do these essentially strech the skin a little each time and maintain a hole?

*ahhhhhh typo 'sex without penetration' *

I sent you a private message A1

Watch this stuff together - and laugh  touch and be flirtateous(Spelling??)

being cuddled is so good, have him brush your hair, go down the massage with essential oils route - doesnt HAVE to be sexual - can lead that way tho get him to massgae you and then you him- have lots of towels around the oils can get everywhere

If you get dilators from the NHS they come in a variety of sizes and i think you get given a set over time - the easier way is to go to A Summers or similar and laugh together -  so they can see you both privately you could ring them first and tell them the issue

If the problem is that you go into spasm  getting used to it in the vagina is a Good Thing - if you split-  again having a smallish one - by that i mean narrow will allow gentle penetration without tearing - get the lubrication tho- My Consultant suggests Astroglyde from the net

It is good to spill out your feelings  if you are a tad anxious about it use the private message envelope then only the person you wrie to can see the message

Again SHARE your concerns with your husband - he doesnt have to know your pseudonym - you could reregister with another one  - or just be a guest so you can keep some of your anxieties until the time is right to tell him- Men can be funny sometimes if not properly prepared. Go down the new path together and discover new ways of having fun