I've read so many prostate books but one stood out in which a well established author suggested that people generally do not need to drink any extra in addition to the liquid that is already in the foods. Does anyone remember the name of the book ? In a way it makes sense since less liquid intake -> less urine -> less urinary retention. I've been self cathing for over 2 years and I know for a fact that the more you drink, the worse your retention is. So far, I found the best way to lower retention is to drink less. Control liquid intake, control your retention!
Perhaps we should consume less fluid. Would we have other problems like constipation, bladder stones, kidney stones, etc ? Hank
I've been macrobiotic and vegan for over 10 years, and there is a lot of water in the cooking I do, so I don't have to drink much. I do have a bowl of soup once a day and sometimes a hot drink in the morning. If I am thirsty later, I drink a little something too. And since I'm self-cathing, I know I'm urinating about 1.2-1.6 litres per day. You want to keep an eye on your urine volume and urine color (dark is concentrated, meaning you need more fluid) because kidney stones are no fun.
Thanks Fred. I am measuring my urine volume also, and it's about 2 liters a day. I might try to bring it down to your level of ~1.5 liters first, and then maybe 1.0 later. I will to check on kidney stone. Hank
That's funny that you posted this now as I was just a few minutes ago commenting to my wife that my residuals today were down from 350ml to 250ml and the urine color was deep yellow and smelly ( also my natural voids were down from 250 to 150) and we were discussing the reasons why that might be. I usually drink 2 spring water bottles each day, 500ml each which I did today as well. But I did 6 CICs today whereas I usually do 4 to try and bring down the residuals which seems to have worked.
I know that it is really important to drink a liter of water a day throughout the day and to keep the pee color a light straw color as bladder stones can form in concentrated urine.
Very interesting. I am 70+ and all of my life have consumed what could be considered extraordinary volumes of fluids. At least 3 quarts daily -- milk, juices, water -- and significantly more in warmer weather. (A gallon of milk per day in the summer not unusual. Not a big soda or beer guy)
It's a "duhhh" kind of moment, but even a curtailed volume of fluid now just might alleviate the chronic urinary difficulties I have had for at least 15 years. Thank you for the clue.
Howard, one poster made a lot of sense when comparing peeing with doing weight lifting, the muscles can only do so weight (obstruction) for so many reps. One's bladder can only pump so much, especially with obstruction, or being overstretched, or just being tired from aging. After a certain volume, urine can't be pumped out anymore. If you are cathing, then you'll need to cath more, or lower the load.
Owen, just as I mentioned to Howard above, our bladders can only pump so much. After a certain volume, it becomes harder to push it out naturally. I would consider lower your liquid intake. Zero intake is too radical. I am planning on 1 liter, which is about 1 US quart. Hank
Another factor to consider is if the liquid you consume is a diuretic like coffee. I've brought this up before and was surprised there wasn't more agreement. If you drink a cup of coffee brewed with say 1 cup of water; then it will cause your system to produce 1.2 cups of urine (my ratio there is completely made up, but you get the idea. May be more like 1.04 or something) but you aren't gaining on H20 in your system by drinking coffee; at least decent strength coffee. You end up with a net loss. You may have to pee a lot if you drink a lot of coffee but there is more than the water in the coffee your shedding. I don't know where it comes from; just from fat cells that store water or something. The human body is what... 2/3 water or something like that.
This relationship between voided amount and post void residual (PVR) is something I'm trying to make sense of. A natural void of 250 sounds pretty good to me, but I guess you are saying that even with that amount voided you still have 300 ml or so of PVR?? How do you know that? Are you measuring the PVR by self cathing after natural voids. Is this amount of 250 during the daytime?
I use a bladder scanner. I've noticed that my PVR is around 75 to 120 mL during the day time after natural voids of 150 to 175 mL. At night time, however, PVR is much higher as is the voided amount. It's hard to do a bladder scan at night because it's hard to fall back asleep. I've only done it about twice, but have noticed that the PVR was over 220 mL for a voided amount of around 320 mL I would love to figure out a way to reduce the PVR at night with these larger voidings compared to the daytime voidings. I'll probably start doing more testing at nightime, even though it will mean that I'm going to lose sleep.
How much you need to drink depends on many factors in your lifestyle. If you are active and the weather is hot, you will need more liquid to replenish your hydration to proper level. For example, if I am working out hard and it is summer time, I NEED about 1liter every 45min. When I go for longer bike ride, I take with me 2 or 3liter of water with some salt added. The most interesting factor is that most of it is sweated out, because I hardly urinate during that time.
I judge how much I need to drink by the color of the urine and drink until it is "proper" color. Dark yellow, or even brownish indicates that one is dehydrated.
Just want to concur that a kidney stone is really no fun at all. My uro doc said most important factor fpr prevention is to make sure I drink a lot every day.
I believe coffee is a culprit for it serves as an irritant to the bladder (the caffeine signaling "gotta' go" more than it should.)
That said, a morning with coffee is a great jump start for my system and seems even to alleviate the aches and pains of getting out of bed in the morning -- the blood circulating more swiftly as it does with coffee in my system. I am retired but work a part-time "fun" job that keeps me physically active and mentally alert. The coffee just makes me sharper...and the job more fun.
Sorry for the delay. I self-cath 4 times a day. I have one of those measuring "hats" that sit in the toilet bowl and can measure accurately up to 800ml. You can but them at any drug store for $2.00. So first I do my natural void into them before CIC. During the day it is around 200ml. Then I do my CIC void into the hat and it is usually 250 to 300ml. So the total is around 500ml which is higher than the the 400ml total that jimjames recommends for bladder rehab.
At night it is a different story as you note. I CIC before bed at 11 pm. But I am always awakened by a lot of bladder pressure in the middle of the night. I stumble to the bathroom and usually cannot natural void at all. I then CIC anywhere from 500 to 800ml which is a lot. I then try to get back to sleep but have a lot of trouble with that.
My uro says it is important not to have such high volumes at night. I try taking some salt in the form of salted sunflower seeds and that helps with my big water dumps at night .
It is important to properly hydrate ourselves. The best indicator is the color of the pee. If it is a pale straw color then we are ok regardless of how much water we drink. Howard
Hi Hank -I agree. I try to space out throughout the day drinking my 2 - 500ml bottles spring water. If I drink too much at one time I go into full retention and have to CIC. Also if I have to pay and hold it in for more than 15 min then I cannot natural void and have to CIC. Sometimes I feel I am fighting a losing battle but I do not want a surgery and don't mind CIC. Tomorrow I have an ultrasound of my kidneys and bladder and they want me to drink 3 full glasses of water an hour before - I don't think so! I'll just drink one glass otherwise there will be problems. Good luck. Howard
Hello all! I like to share a personal story on how too much liquid intake can be harmful. Two years ago, one day, for an unknown reason, my blood pressure skyrocketed together with an accelerated heartrate. So I went to see a doctor, who prescribed blood tests. Everything was normal except for my kidney function which was slightly declined. The doctor decided that I was dehydrated, gave me BP meds, and at next visit, told me to "drink at least 2 liters everyday".
I told the doc that I already eat lots of fruits and vegetables but wanted to be well, I dutifully followed her order, drinking at least 2 liters everyday for many weeks. The next several follow up visits found my blood pressure became higher, yet the real trouble was my kidney function kept on declining further. One day, months later, the doctor and several of her peers declared that I had chronic kidney disease (CKD), and high BP was a result of CKD, and told me to prepare for kidney dialysis.
I kept meticulous records of my health, including what I eat I eat and drink so I went back and told my doctor that my BP and kidney worsened since I started the 2 liters a day. She said : "No way!".
Since dialysis was approaching, I decided to take a chance and cut down on my liquid substantially and oh my God, my BP started to decline. Further kidney scan that I requested showed my kidneys flooded (hydronephrosis). My old kidneys and bladder could not handle the amount of liquid that I was pouring in. It was the first time that I found out that I had urinary retention. I took me months for my BP and kidney function to come back to normal. I would not be surprised that someone else in the same situation, with blind faith in doctors, would be in dialysis by now. Perhaps if you are young and active, and don't consume lots of fruits and veggies like I, you would do fine with the 2 liters a day. But to make an unqualified statement that how much everyone should be drunk, can be dangerous. Hank