Low Carbs

Diabetes
1

Hi, I am in the process of trying to sort out my low blood sugar/hunger/faint feelings. I feel it's hypoglycemia, it may even be diabetes, hence posting here.

So my question is regarding the Low Carb diet, which has been strongly advocated in another discussion on another forum. People swear by this, personally it seems very onerous to me and I can't afford to keep up with it.

My GP said that a balanced diet would be better and that, while not against Low Carbs at all, she said it was only meant to be a temporary diet, for a month or so. This is because it may be harmful for the kidneys.

So I can't deny people's experiences, nor do I seek to. But I'd like to know if others have managed these symptoms/conditions without recourse to a difficult (IMO) diet?

Thanks

2

I'm not sure that this is the reply you're after but I have to say that your doctor is 100% correct about the low carb diet. The low carb diet though successful in helping you lose some pounds it was never meant to be a permanent diet. What you need to do is follow a healthy well-balanced food plan. And to stop calling it a diet. This is a lifelong change for you. You need to start thinking healthier. My doctor recommended I go to American diabetes org. There is a lot of good information on that website and you can sign up for regular emails too. Good luck on your adventures

3

Hi GW

As I have said in previous postings I am no doctor but have gained quite a lot of knowledge over the past 3 years of pre-diabetic and the  Type 2 diabetes for the last year.

Type 2 symptoms are thirst,passing urine,drowsiness weight loss etc. and is Hyper-glycaemia.(known as hyper) This is when your blood sugar results are anything over 9 and can be as high as 20 and above.

Type 1 is when the pancreas cannot produce insulin and therefore patients have to inject insulin. Should your blood readings go below 3.5 you are in the realms of having Hypo-glycaemia (known as a hypo) and can be really dangerously ill. Most Type 2's will with age develop into T1 - including me!

Did your doctor take blood readings and if she did what was it?

Diets can be confusing and worrying. If indeed you are diabetic you should see a diabetic dietician.Most hospital diabetic clinics have one.

Wish you luck

4

She took some blood and i get the results tomorrow, apparently.

No glucos readings were taken.

I'm hungry very quickly after a meal.

Quite honestly it's getting me very down. I've wrestled with this for years but at this point I'm starting to lose the plot.

Is there anything to the low carb diet?

5

I can't see the first two posts; they are still waiting to be moderated. Is this normal?

6

This sounds very simple to me. Do you also feel weak and tired all the time ?

7

I wouldn't say ALL the time, but I do wake up feeling pretty tired a lot

8

Ok, yet there seem to be a lot of people who swear by low carb and, according to them, find that it has reversed conditions like this and works for them permanently (or at least ongoing). Rather than a temp position.

9

Dear ghost whistler,

I'm afraid you'll need to wait until you get the results from your blood test before you start making plans about the diet you need to follow.

I'm afraid I also disagree wigth amkoffee about your doctor being 100% correct about the low carb diet.  Your doctor is also incorrect about this ... unless s/he is referring to an extreme low carb diet.  You MAY need to follow a low carb diet if you are either hypoglycemic, which is lower than 'normal' blood sugar levels, or diabetic, which is hyperglycemia or higher than 'normal' blood sugar levels.  (I've followed a low carb diet for the last 36 years, since being diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic, to help control my diabetes.  A low carb diet IS intended as a long-term diet.)

The truth of the matter is that IF you are diagnosed as hypoglycemic, your doctor would, VERY LIKELY require you to undergo further testing to determine which type of hypoglycemia it is that you suffer with.

The MOST COMMON type of hypoglycemia is called reactive hypoglycemia which occurs when your pancreas 'over-produces' insulin in response to the food(s) and drink(s) that you imbibe.  It is this type of hypoglycemia where you NEED to control the amount of carbohydrates that you imbibe, making sure that when you eat you take in fewer carbs, but take in fat or protein at the same time.  (Fats and proteins slow down the absorption of carbohydrates, so you don't get the sugar 'spike' which causes the pancreas to over-produce insulin.  In effect, you shouldn't experience the 'lows' where you experience symptoms.)

A MUCH RARER type of hypoglycemia is called fasting hypoglycemia, which normally occurs due to an insulin-producing tumor being present.  This type of hypoglycemia MAY require surgery to put right.

anthony70799 ia absolutely, 100% incorrect when stating that most type 2 diabetics "will with age" become type 1.  No type 2 diabetic has EVER become type 1.  They are very different conditions, sharing only the fact that they both have higher than 'normal' blood sugar (glucose) levels.  (Some type 1 diabetics MAY have been misdiagnosed as type 2, particularly if they're older when they're diagnosed, or they're overweight when diagnosed.  This would be LADA (Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults ... sometimes referred to as type 1.5 or slow onset diabetes.)

 Mick

x x x x

 x x x

P.S. Please don't be offended, or alarmed, at the 'x's'.  It's merely a logo, of sorts, that I've used for close on 40 years now.

10

The blood tests have not revealed anything negative. I am told the results are fine. Therefore I assume I do not have diabetes. Similar tests many years ago when I first looked into this revealed nothing.

What do you mean by 'extreme' low carb; going by the carb counts in these diets they all seem pretty extreme: the most is 50g. I do not see any way for me to adhere to that. 

I don't know if my doctor is wrong about these diets, but i've been told that foregoing this amount of carbs is not advisable. I'm not calling you a liar, btw. If you say this has worked for you, then fine. For me I would find it extremely onerous and prohibitively expensive. The foods you can eat are not cheap (berries for instance, meat, nuts). What would you replace something like bread with? Why would eating bread, but within establihsed carb limits (if possible) be bad?

11

Dear ghost whistler,

I may not know you personally, but I'm glad that your blood test revealed nothing seriously wrong with you.  To be frank with you, if you don't mind me changing my name for a second, a knowledgeable doctor would have had you undergo an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (OGTT) to find out whether you really do have a blood sugar (glucose) metabolism issue.

You don't mention which specific blood test was carried out, but as the result wasn't given to you immediately I'm presuming that it was either a full blood panel test or a HbA1c (glycated hemoglobin) test.  The latter test gives a result of what your blood sugar level has been like over the previous 3 months, with a slight empahsis on the latter 6 to 8 weeks of that time. This does NOT, however, show if your blood sugar level has risen or fallen over that time, it just shows an 'average' of what it's been like over that period.  (A full blood panel would include such things as your thyroid levels, iron levels, both of which can cause tiredness if not in the correct amounts, and a whole host more.)

An extreme low-carb diet is precisely as it says, a diet gthat consists of eating very limited quantities of carbohydrates, but incorporates a much larger percentage of fats and proteins.  These types of diets are sometimes referred to as ketogenic diets.  That's diets that purposely put the body into ketosis, which is where the body utilises [utilizes, if you are, in fact, one of my American cousins] fats and proteins as a source of 'fuel', rather than it's preferred source, which is glucose.  (Dieters use these types of diets in order to aid weight loss.  If not done correctly, it's these types of diets that can be damaging to the body, and PROBABLY the type of diet that your doctor is referring to.)

It's not so much that your doctor is wrong about these diets, ghost whistler, it's just that s/he is, or MAY be, ill-informed about them.

Wikipedia offers quite a comprehensive piece about low-carb diets, and it does clearly state that low-carb diets are "used to treat or prevent some chronic diseases and conditions, including cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, auto-brewery syndrome, high blood pressure, and diabetes."  It's extreme low-carb diets that are not recommended in the long-term.  This is because the body's prime source of energy is in the form of glucose, which we get from the breakdown of carbohydrates during the digestive process.

I do understand what you mean about low-carb diets being "onerous and prohibitively expensive", but it doesn't have to be that way.  Dependent on the type of work that you do, if you are working, you MAY not need to eat many carbs in any case.  (People that work in heavy manual labor type work are the ones that require larger portions of carbohydrates.  Many berries, by the way, are heavy in carbohydrates ... the same with many fruits.)  A better option MAY be to simply eat smaller portions, if you can.

Eating bread is not, in itself "bad", it's just that bread consists of readly available carbohydrates, which simply means that it is easily broken down during the digestive process.  This releases glucose into the bloodstream very quickly and doesn't maintain blood sugar (glucose) levels for long periods of time.  Ideally, what you need to do is try to maintain blood sugar levels 'on an even keel' for longer periods of time.  One way of doing this is to eat fat(s) and/or protein(s) at the same time.  This slows down absorption of the glucose that's produced, so you don't get the sugar 'spikes' that cause a rapid production of insulin.  As your doctor didn't find anything seriously amiss when s/he tested your blood, there should be no real problem with eating bread.  The only thing is that eating bread raises blood sugar levels which, if not used shortly after by using your muscles, gets stored as fat.  It's when this fat gets stored as adipose (abdominal) fat that increases the risk of someone going on to develop type 2 diabetes.  (This is only ONE of a number of factors that determines whether someone would go on to develop diabetes.  Obviously, not everyone that is overweight does go on to develop diabetes.)

Another thing with bread is the types of bread that are available.  White bread, for instance, has the most readily available source of sugar (glucose), whereas brown bread, malted bread, oatmeal bread, stoneground bread, etc. all have more roughage (fiber), which slows down the absorption of glucose.  There again, you are less likely to get the sugar 'spikes' that cause problems for anyone that suffers with a glucose metabolism condition.

The "carb limits" that you refer to are dependent on a number of things, such as your body size, whether you need to lose weight, the type of work that you do, the amount of exercise that you do, or whether you lead a sedentary lifestyle, etc. i.e. people that do heavy manual labor, athletes and/or very active people would require a greater number of carbohydrates in the main.

 Mick

x x x x

 x x x

12

Hi, I was just reading your response to GW. It just dawned on me that I may now be #1?!

I was extremely sick with Urosepsis(septicemia) in Nov and in the hospital for 4 days. The infection caused my blood sugars to peak at a horrific "33"! The Internal Specialists said that my diabetic meds. we're no longer able to control my bld sugar etc. & that I'll be Insulin dependant!

It has never occurred to me that you can go from #2 to #1 until I read your response! After being diagnosed with #2 approx 10 years ago I thought it was going fairly well!

I'm still trying to learn more about Insulin and it sure is a huge learning curve! They said that since the infection was so serious that it's going to be awhile before my bld sugar is under control. Trying very hard but Christmas sure didn't help!

I'm so glad that I read your answer but I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach or walked into a cement wall! I don't recall if they'd said it, I was very confused due to the infection getting into my blood stream!

Thanks for your information, I think, haha. Susan

13

Dear susan49687,

Please accept my apologies for butting in on your conversation with anthony70799, but I would like to reiterate that NO TYPE 2 DIABETIC HAS EVER DEVELOPED INTO TYPE 1.  You can ask your doctor to confirm that.  I'm 100% positive that s/he will tell you that I am correct.

You CAN become insulin-dependent, but that still does NOT make you a type 1 diabetic.  You can become insulin-dependent when the beta cells (islets of Langerhans) of your pancreas ... the insulin-producing cells ... are no longer able to produce insulin. i.e. as in the case of type 1 diabetes, where the body's own immune system actually destroys the beta cells, or, as in your case, where the sepsis prevents the beta cells from no longer being able to produce insulin.  It MAY be that the sepsis has only temporarily prevented your beta cells from producing insulin.  They MAY still recover.  Your comment that "they" said "it's going to be awhile before my bld sugar is under control" leads me to believe that you MAY not become insulin-dependent.

The thing about insulin that you need to know is that insulin is required to 'transport' glucose, which we get from the breakdown of carbohydrates during the digestive process, from the bloodstream into the body's cells, where it is used to create energy, thereby keeping us alive.  (It acts like a sort of 'key' to unlock the door to the cells, so that glucose can enter them.)

 Mick

x x x x

 x x x

P.S. Please don't be offended, or alarmed, at the 'x's'.  It's merely a logo, of sorts, that I've used for close on 40 years now.

14

Hi Mick, thank you so much for responding! You sound extremely knowledgeable, are you in the medical field?

It's frustrating when we hear so many conflicting information, maybe I should've done more research before I got myself so keyed up! I certainly don't recall anyone saying anything about

becoming #1! That was my 2nd infection in 1 1/2 years, the next 1 could be fatal or lead to internal damage.

I'm the type of person who truly appreciates information so that when I research I have more knowledge about the subject.

Thanks for responding, the X's aren't alarming, I didn't think that it was a logo but a sign that you were someone in this confusing world who was just showing concern or something positive!

I will look for your posts in the future, thanks again, Susan

15

Hi susan49687,

Again, ma'am, I offer my apologies for butting in on your conversation with anthony70799 but as the information he offered was incorrect I felt I needed to explain what the facts are.

I'm pleased that you didn't take offence [offense, if you are, in fact, one of my American cousins] at the 'x's'.  Unfortunately, in these political correct times, SOME people do take offence and question whether I have an 'ulterior motive'.  Of course, the answer is always no, but I've  had quite a number of people, over the years, trying to 'catch me out' ... some questioning my sexuality, and some questioning whether I'm a paedophile [pedophile].

I am NOT a medically qualified person, ma'am.  It's just that over the last 36+ years that I've been a type 1 diabetic I've felt duty bound to find out what I can about the condition.  This soon expanded on finding out about the different types of diabetes, the differences between the multiple different types, which genes are affected, etc. etc.

I appreciate your statement that I sound extremely knowledgeable, ma'am, but I am NOT an expert in the field.  (I am called upon to offer a patient's 'point of view' to junior doctors in training and nurses, as well as patients that are newly diagnosed with diabetes, and those wishing to go onto using pump technology.  (I was actually the first person, in the area that I live, to go onto pump technology, so I do have some experience that MIGHT help them.)  I'm also called upon to be used in the training of doctors at my local hospital as a 'guinea pig patient'.  This is because I have some of the 'more obvious' symptoms that has diabetes-related complications.)

I'm also in the enviable position of having a personal relationship with my own endocrinologist and can contact him on his personal email account and personal telephone number as well as contacting him through his work email, telephone, Patients Know Best email account, etc.

I certainly appreciate just how anxiety-forming AND frustrating it is, particularly when you're given such devastating news.  (I actually spend most of my time answering questions on diabetes, mental health issues, computers, scanners, printers, software, etc. on Yahoo! Answers, having been retired on grounds of ill-health from my previous occupation as a social worker for elderly, mentally infirm clients ... that's people who suffer with one or more types of dementia.)

It's really understandable that once given devastating news that you want to know what it means for you, whether it's going to get any worse, how it's going to be treated, etc. etc.  It's not until you come up against all the conflicting information that you decide that you really want to find out the facts.  Sadly, many people don't get to the stage where they research facts, instead just going along with what they've 'been told'.  (Not everyone has the ability to carry out their own research ... not being able to correctly interpret what they've read ... not knowing 'where to start' ... not having sufficient time ... other commitments, etc.)

I may not know you personally, ma'am, but I am truly sad that you've had a similar infection in such a short space of time.  I certainly hope that you don't suffer any more.  I am aware that sepsis can be fatal, AND that it can cause all sorts of internal damage.  Have the doctors not been able to find out why you're repeatedly suffering such an infection, such as why it's happening, what's causing it, etc.?

Apologies if my 'tracts' are getting a little long to read, Susan.  I have a tendency to do that.  (I blame my social work training for that, where assignments needed to be 'bulked out' as there was certain number of words that essays/assignments needed to be before they'd even be considered for marking. lol.)

Hopefully, I will hear from you again.

You may, if you wish, click on my avatar and send me a personal message (PM) and I will offer you my personal email address if you need to discuss anything that you don't wish to share with others.

Be well, ma'am.

Lots of Love and Light.

 Mick

x x x x

 x x x

16

Thanks for responding again Mick. It must've been very difficult when you had to leave your profession! I'm not going to say why, too boring for the others but I sort of understand.

I'm Canadian and have no idea what the X's mean. I feel stronglythat if someone has done a lot of research and can share what

they've learned, fabulous!

As for my infections, I've had chronic sinusitis, upper respiratory

and urinary tract infections for approximately 30 years. In

November my upper resp. infection was so bad that I didn't knowthat I also had a urinary infection. By the time the upper resp.

infection was under control the urinary infection had become

Septic! I didn't know that my blood sugars were telling me

something was really wrong! They are something that you

should take extremely seriously as that may be your 1st major

symptom!

The Specialists are thinking that last April when I had an upper

resp. infection that I wasn't on antibiotics long enough to totally

kill the infection.

Diabetes has always made me nervous, especially as a nurse as

I never could quite grasp the whole concept! Having a diabetic

patient wasn't as common as it is now, in Canada it's now

considered an epidemic, I imagine it's the same in the States?

To all the newly diagnosed Diabetics, ask and ask questions

from reliable sources. I get a lot of information from the

Canadian Diabetes website and some of the other sources they

and others suggest. It's not easy but it does get easier, talking

with other knowledgeable Diabetics helps, I learned a few things

from a lady on Saturday I am so glad to have learned!

I don't know if this helps anyone but you never know when

something you say can help. My ears are usually open to learn

something new! This was kinda long winded but it's hard to

know when to stop. Susan

17

What is the differencce between a low carb and an extreme low carb?

I tried a few days eating less carbs last week and was hungry after every meal. I couldn't do that every day. I've also read that saturated fats are contraindicated as well.

I undertook an oral glucose test years ago. They had me come into the surgery in the morning before breakfast (before i had eaten, that is) and drink a glass of some glucose liquid. I did so, didn't exhibit any symptoms or whatever and was subsequently told that the test revealed nothing problematic either.

I've been testing my blood sugar with a meter recently, as the doctor gave me on last friday. I had a relatively mild (i've had worse) hypo moment mid afternoon and measured my blood sugar and it was in the hypo range (3.5, not sure what the measurement is but i live in the UK and i think it's differnet over here). Normally I average around 6-7.

18

Dear Susan,

Thank you, ma'am, for responding to my previous post.

You are correct, ma'am, in believing that it must have been "very difficult" when I had to leave my profession.  I was angry and bitter for years about a so-called caring profession not being able to find other jobs that I'd be capable of doing within an organisation of such a size.

I was actually a hospital in-patient when I first received a letter from our Head Office, stating that I needed to attend for a medical examination.  I telephoned to inform 'them' that I couldn't attend as I was a hospital in-patient, to which they replied that I should let them know when I was discharged so that they could arrange another date and time.

Unfortunately, by the time the second letter arrived, I was again a hospital in-patient.  Looking back, I'm assuming that they must have believed that I was 'swinging the lead' ... trying to 'take them for a ride'.  They stated that they'd meet me at my home address with a view to retirement on grounds of ill-health.  I got straight on the phone to ask for union representation as I thought they were simply trying to 'railroad' me.

What a waste of time that was.  On the day of the meeting, both the union representative and the person from our Head Office turned up, looking like they were holding hands as they came up the drive at the front of the house.

The representative from Head Office came well prepared.  She had with her various documents stating how many years and days I'd worked for Social Services, how much I'd be getting as a lump sum, and how much I'd be getting as a monthly pension payment.  The union rep was next to useless.  I was looking for some sort of support, and help in arguing my case that an organisation the size of Social Services MUST have other positions that I could work in.  Of course, the representative from Head Office asked me what I had in mind, to which I replied that I knew, for a fact, that modifactions had been made to various establishments around the borough where I live, and worked, for people with a range of different abilities.  All the union rep was interested in was telling me that he'd got the same computer as I had, and that he was typing in a book about model railways.  It made me wonder what the heck I'd been paying my union subscriptions for over the years.

The best of it was, I was found by someone, in a virtual state of collapse, outside a newsagent in the town where I live.  He asked me if I was alright, and when I lifted my head to respond he said "Oh, it's you, Mick."  "Are you alright?"  The guy hust happened to be the Director of Social Services who I'd met and spoken with on quite a number of occasions.

I stated that I'd have been much better if Social Services hadn't got rid of me on health grounds.  He seemed genuinely surprised that this had happened ... unless he was a phenomenal actor.  He offered to arrange for me to do some work at home, offering to supply me with a computer and an internet connection, as the knowledge that I possessed on the different types of dementia, and the experience I had with working with both clients and their families, shouldn't go unused.

By the time I was well enough to go to Head Office and have a word with him, he'd left the organisation for 'new pastures' and hadn't passed on information regarding the offer he'd made me to the guy that took over his post.

I'm truly sorry that you've lived with infections for so long, Susan.  You'd think that, in this day and age, by now they'd have worked out why you repeatedly get them and sort out some way of preventing it from happening, at least not so frequently.

I'm sure that being a nurse you aleady know that repeated infections ... particularly of the groin (usually urinary tract infections) is one of the symptoms that shows prior to someone being diagnosed with diabetes.  (It's one of the more common symptoms, along with the three Ps ... polyuria, polydipsia, and polyphagia ... feelings of lethargy/tiredness, blurred vision, unexplained weight loss, etc.)

Higher than 'normal' blood glucose levels cna cause major damage to the body's organs, blood vessels, and nerves if not treated.  Blood glucose levels can get so high that the sufferer could lapse into a diabetic coma.  If not found, and admitted to hospital for emergency medical care, the person could very easily die.  (There are a whole range of diabetes-related complications that can occur due to raised blood glucose levels, some of which can be a real pain ... literally; some that can prove embarrassing; and as I've just said, can prove fatal.)

The diabetes "epidemic" is considered a world wide phenomenon, ma'am, it's not just in Canada.  (I don't actually live in the United States, Susan.  I'm from the other side of the Atlantic ocean.  I live in the UK (United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.)

The Canadian Diabetes website is one of the better ones out there, Susan.  Believe me, I've looked at many diabetes-related websites over the years from all around the world.  The Canadian Diabetes site give FACTUAL information.

It's good that you're willing to learn new things, Susan.  It's the only way that we get to develop our own mind.  (I was a terrible student when I was at school ... when I actually attended, that is ... and now, for the last 35+ years, I've made myself learn about a whole range of different topics.)  I'm glad that you learned something new on Saturday.  It's that extra bit of knowledge that you can pass on to others.

Apologies for the length of this response.  I could have gone on and on, but I doubt that that would have served much purpose.

Be well, Susan.

Lots of Love and Light.

 Mick

x x x x

 x x x

19

I have done the same as you. All my tests show nothing but I bought a glucose meter and got a result of 2.8mmo/l. Showed my gp and he has sent me to see and endocrinologist. I see him on 20th this month.

20

Hi GW, if you are able to maintain your blood sugar between 6

and 7 you should be very proud of yourself! Kudos to you!

I'm now really starting to look more seriously at the low carbs.

although I feel that we do need some carbs in our diet but try to

have the higher complex carbs like sweet potatoes. I think low tomoderation works best in so much of our lives and food. Too lowor too much of anything is not usually good for anyone.

Continue your research but if you continue the way you are

maybe you've already found the diet that works for you!

All the best, Susan