I was just thinking, to people who have MAV who have a feeling of being "bouncy" or floaty, like on a boat (where your eyes take in second to catch up to where you head is pointed) - could the overuse of your eyes trying to keep you balanced/steady be CAUSING the migraines? Just a thought, thinking outside of the box.
Professionals, care to comment?
But then, what else would cause the bouncy feeling? Maybe I am missing something?
For me. I think no. The process of the migraine causes all the weird events including the dizziness. My Dr explained that the migraine was affecting the cerebellar and or brainstem area of the brain causing my dizziness. Other drs think it's a migraine of the inner ear, a vestibular migraine. There doesn't seem to be 100% agreement on where all the dizziness originates, but there seems to be agreement that it is the neurological condition called migraine that causes the dizziness. MAV is usually termed a migraine variant, since it isn't the common or classic type, but I get those too. When I get the "normal" migraines, I don't get dizzy, but I do get tinnitus. When I am having the dizziness or vertigo, I, many times, also get pressure in my face, sinus, jaw, neck, tinnitus, but not a true headache. Seems to affect the trigeminal nerve with the dizzy spells for me.
No. The presence of migraine in MAV is not related to eye use. The bouncy feeling is caused by the migraine extenting its effects either to the inner ear or to the vestibular areas of the brain.
Eleftherios S. Papathanasiou, PhD, FEAN
Clinical Neurophysiologist
Fellow of the European Academy of Neurology
I also feel the bouncing sensation and the neurologist says it is probably migrainous vertigo. The vestibular rehab puts it right and then it comes back. I don't feel I have had a migraine and I only have had the aura. How do I orevent this happening? Is there any medication or alternative therapy. I have not had a wobble free day for twelve months now?'
Hey! I am going threw the exact same thing you are.. I've been dealing with the dizziness, lightheadedness, headaches for 7 straight months. I'm curious of how it all started for you..I'm 32 years old and never had dizziness or any of the symptoms ever in the past. Last mid September I had a real bad sinus cold. A few days after those symptoms passed I got hit out of no where with a huge blast of dizziness and almost dropped me to the ground.. Ever since then constant dizziness and headaches.. What's your story?
Hey Doc! First thing I really appreciate you commenting on multiple feeds.. That's very nice of you to take time out of your day and help so many people in need.. I was wondering if you ever heard of this happening before.. Last mid September I had a real bad sinus cold.. I remember I was irritated because I was so stuffed up and purchased "Affrin" nasal spray and went to town on each nostril. I remember after squeezed liquid in nose I realized I probably put too much.. Definitely did way more than I was supposed too because of the pressure I instantly felt above eyes.. A few days after that, I was at work. I got there at 6am and felt great. Around 8 am, I got hit with the craziest blow of dizziness/lightheadedness.. I believe I blacked out for a couple of seconds and couldn't believe I was still standing.. My legs felt like jello and had zero strength and could barely stand up.. I instantly started dripping sweat on my forehead.. I thought for sure I was having a stroke or heartattack.. Somehow I finished my shift at 11 am.. I didn't say anything because it was my first day at new job and was scared I would lose it if I said I had to leave.. I called in sick later that day to other job and went to a clinic. They noticed my EKG was off.. But didn't know what was going on. I went home to rest then later that night I was so stressed about this affecting my work I forced myself to walk around a lake.. I remember it felt like I was teaching myself how to walk again. Legs were really stiff and it was almost like I had to really focus on how to walk. I kept falling to the left for some reason while I was trying to walk in a straight line. Few days later I went to ER and they did a quick diagnosis. Said I had Labrythinitis/Sinus infection. They gave me amoxicillin and Prednisone. The Prednidone was a dream. After 3 days of that I felt 100% percent back to normal. Like it never happened.. After a couple days of finishing the prednisone prescription, the dizziness/lightheadeness/headaches/foggy head and ear fullness came back and has never left. It's now 7 months later and still dealing with but the first 3 months were definitely the worst. Those symptoms were 24/7 everyday. Now I have a few good days(mild dizziness but still very much there) and then a few bad days and will switch back and forth. Dizziness symptoms are bouncy, swaying, sometimes I feel like I'm falling standing up like I can't feel the ground. Like I'm on a boat all the time. Sometimes I will get a head rush like your in an elevator going down and get that head rush when you hit your floor.. Have you ever heard of this before? If so, what do you think it may be?
I do notice too at times I have black dots in my vision.. Not sure what that is.. It's not all the time. That may happen for 10 minutes each time and will later go away
My problem started with a migraine aura - no headache- and I have only had a few of these, very intermitnetly, through my life. I then woke up seven days later and saw double for a second or two. I lost my balance and my eyes felt stiff and strained. I have been having physiotherapy ever since, both gaze stabilisation and physical exerciese based on tai chi. My balance improved, I was nearly ok then it came back.
I have never felt sick or a spinning sensation, but i get dizzy if i look down. I have now got the bouncy head and wobbly legs, though it is improving, if only temporarily. I take anti anxiety medication which I think helps but nothing else does. I am trying a gluten free, alcohol free, chocolate free diet and hoping for results but I am not holding my breath. Meditation and relaxation does help, though.
Dear Sir,
Thank you very much. You are describing a vertical type of vertigo which may be affecting a specific part of the inner ear (the otolith organs). It all sounds like an extension of your original sinus problem that has not completely gone away. The next step is to see an ENT specialist.
Eleftherios S. Papathanasiou, PhD, FEAN
Clinical Neurophysiologist
Fellow of the European Academy of Neurology
Thank you for responding doc.. The dizziness comes only when I'm up and moving. I've never got the spinning sensation thank god. I've never gotten the dizziness when sitting or laying down only when standing and walking
These last 7 months have been the hardest months I've ever lived.. But I'm very strong mentally and physically. I continue to go to the gym 5 days a week. I have 5 jobs which I've worked extremely hard over the years to get. I won't let this take anything away that I've earned and waited for. The only thing I have had to put on hold is being a musician. The last 2 shows I had, I felt like I was going to fall off the stage at any moment. I had to stop doing shows because of the possible danger and not being able to give the audience my best. But every time these symptoms hit me, I tell it to bring it on. Go head and come your hardest and I will keep walking forward
I'm 36 and having the same symptoms, mine started with a migraine with aura a few days layer a bad sinus infection and bronchitis, very little relief!!! I've been put on lyrica which I can't take because of the terrible side effects, it makes me feel like a zombie and I have to work, I'm going for PT next week for the vertigo , I'm just praying for some sort of relief, this has been so frustrating!!!! Does it ever end?
I used to get migraines and now when I get a headache it will move from the front to the side and all around picking different areas in my head to hurt. I have been light headed for 5 yrs non stop so I wish the doctor here and others could tell me that if it is a vestibular migraine would the lightheaded feeling be with you all the time? Also can he recommend any good docs in NY or long Island?
No, vertigo is a symptom, not a trigger. Triggers cause episodes of migraine and MAV. Every person differs in what their trigger(s) is/are. Migraine is a neurological disease. There are different types of migraine that have particular symptoms, such as vertigo for vestibular migraine or temporary paralysis for hemiplegic migraine, and there are symptoms, such as yawning or nausea or pins-and-needles, that can be for any type of migraine. The four phases of migraine are prodrome, aura, headache, and postdrome (a.k.a migraine hangover), and any phase can be skipped (such as migraine without aura skipping the aura phase or silent migraine skipping the headache phase).
My trigger is light, so things like too much scrolling on a computer/tablet/phone screen and too much typing on an on-screen keyboard on a tablet/phone can cause an episode of MAV, which is different from an actual migraine. Things like fluorescent lights and sunlight can cause a migraine episode in me (as can the previously-mentioned scrolling/typing, but more often than not these days that just triggers MAV).
I was just thinking outloud and wanted to get some ideas. I've had migraines for year, then they stopped, then the dizziness (not vertigo) started up in Nov 2014. My neuro-op says there is no reason for the dizziness, so thought maybe the dizziness was causing the migraines (some pain, always auras). He doesn't think it's MAV, but I do.
Have you tried preventatives like Nortrptaline or Effexor(sp?). I am in upstate NW, so sorry, I cannot recommend anyone downstate. I think once the migraines are under control, you won't have the light-headedness anymore. Best doctor to see is a neuro-ophtahalmologist. There are many around NYC and Long Isalnd, google to find one near you. Good luck!
Hi. I am on month 18! Yikes. I cannot even remember NOT having the bouncing vision. At first I thought it was anxiety (everyone told me that) until I went to the ENT and I had a calorics test which showed I have barely any vestibular-eye coordination (72% deficit, both ears). Google "retinal slip" and that will explain it. My actual vertigo started about a month before that, with BPPV, which finally, after the right person did an Epley maneuver correctly, went away. I read that an inner ear "assault" such as BPPV. Meniere's, or neuritis can bring upon MAV, especially if you've had migraines in the past. The current theory is that your brain stem (V5 nerve?) gets overexcited, which causes frequesnt migraines, and the excitement confuses the vestibular system, and your eyes get weird interpretations of those signals. Best thing is to prevent the migraines, and the dizziness and eye symptoms should go away.
Vestibular rehab exercises and Tai Chi! are supposed to help with the symptoms, but they haven't done much for me yet. Do you have after-images (palinopsia) and oscillopsia (bouncing vision)? Those are my major things that are making me lose my balance. In fact, when I close my eyes and do the sitting, gaze exercises (moving hed up and down and side to side while focusing on an obect in the room), I am not dizzy or off-balance at all. But in everyday life, I have this 24/7, for 18 months now. I just read last night a good description of it (you can google the authors and keyword oscillopsia):
"For those who experience this symptom, we know that when we try and fixate on an object, it won't stay still and our gaze is unstable. Its hard to focus on something that is at a distance. Carefully reading the following two journal articles, it appears that this is a symptom of hyper-excitability of the visual cortex area V5 in the brain.
The article by Suzuki et al. (2004) measures the differences in brain blood flow/activity between a patient experiencing the oscillopsia without nystagmus compared to 6 other healthy individuals. The area of the brain in the Visual Cortex 'V5' for visual motion processing appears to light up for the patient when watching stationary dots, however did not for the other healthy individuals. Both the patient and healthy participants had both light up when watching moving dots. This demonstrates that this V5 area is "hyper-excited" due to being triggered by a migraine or dysfunction in the brain."
The second article by Jacome (2013) suggests that this oscillopsia is from a persistent migraine aura and the patient was treated successfully through Topiramate 50MG twice daily, which has proven to suppress excitability in other various studies. The patient unfortunately didn't undergo any further tests like TMS or MRI to verify persistent migraine aura's typical hyperactivity, however it seems that this is the likely cause of it due to the evidence of V5 hyperactivity found by Suzuki (2004).
I would get a second opinion. Of course there's a reason for the vertigo, whether or not it is migraine (though it certainly sounds like it, especially since you get auras)!
Yes, it is frustrating. He meant no obvious reason, like being hit on the head, having had an infection in my inner ears, having taken "mycin" vestibular-toxic drugs, or LSD. He said my palinopsia is usually seen for those reasons. The fact that I have low VOR, palinopsia, and oscillopsia tell us it's brain-related. He tells me it could be from diabetes (neuropathy of the vestibular nerve) but he's mot convinced and I think that's a stretch. My diabetes is under control and this came on so suddenly, when the migraines resurfaced after years of having been gone (no prior dizziness then). Thanks . He did give me MgO, so maybe he thinks migrains are a possibility (but then I ordered some chelated Mg instead!).
Hey! Hope all is well with you doc. I had a couple questions for you if you don't mind. I know you have very little to go off of. I took a hearing test and that looked normal in both ears. I've been dealing with dizziness all day long for last 8 months now. Can you have meneires if you have good hearing and no tinnitus? Does Ménière's normally gradually come on or does It just hit you at the start? I looked up the BPPV and I don't think I have that. It mentioned that just last minutes but mine is all day everyday.. Could it be vestibular neuritis possibly? Came after sinus infection and hit me with a major blow of dizziness and never left. Symptoms include 24/7 dizziness( no spinning), vertigo that feels of swaying motion, occasional dropping or falling feeling, headaches are the 2 major symptoms. Occasional ear popping and fullness with black spots in vision that last usually about 5 mins.. If you had to guess what do you think it could be?