More fructose ...

Diabetes
1

OK so the basics, sucrose is table sugar, is a molecule of glucose tied to a molecule of fructose.  We diabetics know all about glucose, right, it goes into the blood and is used by lots of cells as long as they have insulin.  Fructose, as I've learned from web surfing the last few days, has to first be processed by the liver, it is generally NOT used directly by the cells, it does not require any insulin to get into the liver, only when it is converted and released as glucose.  And if your liver (not pancreas) is behaving, well, then it doesn't release a ton of glucose for no reason.

So the science on this - is not entirely settled.  There is some disagreement, and some silliness.  Many fruits (!) have more fructose NOT tied to glucose.  And I can't believe that eating moderate amounts of fruit is in general a bad thing for normal humans, even normal humans with diabetes.  And in general I've seen type2 diets are allowed some fruit, but no particular mention of high fructose or low fructose.

(and if you Google this stuff what you mostly get is jabber about "high fructose corn syrup", which is a whole other discussion)

So a couple of more thoughts about fructose, and I welcome any leads as to what else to even look at.  When we count carbs in fruit and foods in general, should fructose carbs count the same as glucose carbs?  What has me going on this is not really a fascination with organic chemistry, but some results I've seen in my own diet.  Just by chance I settled on apples and watermelon as my fruit portions once or twice a day, as I was getting into all this.  These turn out to be high fructose.  And when I decided to try something else - my BG readings went up!  So what I'm seeing is that counting high fructose food carbs may be misleading, or possibly even better, small amounts of fructose may *help* control BG symptoms.  There do seem to be some sporadic suggests that this could be the case, but few specifics.

And for extra credit, also consider - cinnamon.  Now there are some reports that fructose can lead to higher triglycerides and belly fat.  This sounds a little fishy to me, unless you try to live on fructose alone, but here's the thing, there are also reports that cinnamon cancels these effects.  So, how about a little fructose plus cinnamon?  Again in my own case, I was just by chance putting some cinnamon in my oatmeal, and when I stopped the oatmeal I stopped the cinnamon - and my BG went up.  That's when I started seriously looking into it.

So, anyone else have any knowledge, thoughts, recipes, stories?  Thanks.

2

My bg goes up from junk food mostly but eating certain fruits like kiwi does help with diabetes. Watermelon however makes it up. Everyone should monitor their sugar consumption and see what works for them.

3

It sounds like you are a bit of a rebel like me.  When I was first diagnosed type 2 in 2015, I had a hard time giving up my carbs.  I found some protein bars that promised to stabilize glucose levels.  It worked for a while, but was expensive and I would always run out of bars.

Moving forward to today.  I am trying intermittent fasting.  I eat a meal, then I have to wait 3 hours before my next meal.  I don't modify my meals, but I make sure to include high nutrition vegetables and some fruit.

I think a lot of us end up type 2 is that we eat or drink ALL DAY LONG.  We drink coffee with lots of sugar and cream and sip on it all day. Because our glucose is up all day, our pancreas forgets what is normal.

To reset the pancreas, I fast between meals.  After 3 hours I am normally under 100.  Sometimes 80.  I also believe that all artificial sweeteners are a problem.  When they hit your tongue, they trigger the pancreas to put out insulin.  It is high insulin levels that are even worse that high glucose.  The high insulin causes the cells to shut their doors.  Eventually the insulin levels build up and cause damage.  Intermittent fasting allows the body to clear out the insulin, and the glucose. 

A1C is actually a test that counts the glucose molecules that are stuck to the outside of blood cells.  They were not allowed in because the cells have shut the door to insulin.  It tests for insulin resistance not high glucose.

I know for a fact that children who are always going to birthday parties and such, and always eating cake and junk likely have high glucose levels, but they are not insulin resistant, yet.  So their bodies absorb the glucose and they run around in circles for a few hours.  But after 30 or 40 years things begin to break down.

 What do you think?

4

Jonathan, I've gone a bit beyond that, I'm on metformin, and have been very strict about my carbs since diagnosis.  So I have a fairly good baseline to measure variations against.  But I think you are absolutely right, I have given up snacks 95% - I only allow myself a high-protein snack a couple of hours after dinner, but NOTHING during the day.

So I'm glad you got me to mention that - whatever effects I'm seeing *may* also depend on the metformin.  So far that seems critical, my BG is running about 95 before each meal, but if I reduce the metformin much less eliminate it, my BG jumps at least ten points.  Alternately without the cinnamon it jumps another ten points.  But with a little extra fructose and the cinnamon, seems I can get a few points better than 95.  But I'm still testing, characterizing the effects.

BTW if you want to mess with cinnamon be sure to read up on the difference between regular or "Saigon" cinnamon and the preferable but more expensive "Ceylon" cinnamon.

5

I have also used cinnamon and it does help a bit.  I forgot to mention that I have also been doing pancreatic 'exercising'.  That is where I use organic dates to get my pancreas to 'work', then fasting to let my body relearn how to clear out the insulin and glucose.  You can do this once a day after one meal.  I eat 4 dates, which is a lot of carbs, but people have been eating dates for thousands of years with no problems. And my pancreas does properly respond now.  The real test will be on my next A1C in about 30 days.  I'm hoping for under 6.2

6

Jonathan, you are not also taking metformin?  Might make your life a lot easier!

I should see the endo next week for the first time in 90 days, should get an A1C test, and I'm hoping to beat 5.5!

It looks to me like because of the fructose and cinnamon, I've been able to get these excellent results without taking the expensive and perhaps not entirely safe Jardiance pills that apparently the endo expected I would need.

I do plan to ask him about the fructose and cinnamon, but I also expect to get nothing but the skunk-eye from him on it, US doctors just don't do food or supplements.  He'll refer me to a nutritionist, who doesn't really have the medical background, or to a naturopath who sort of or almost does.  How many medical doctors in the US know anything about nutrition, must be a tiny and highly secret group.

7

I'd also be interested to learn the sugar breakdown for dates - I've seen the very high carb counts for dates and avoided them but if they are fructose, then that might be different!  But I'd be careful saying people have eaten them with no problem - for diabetics they were probably a problem for as long as that's been going on.  Also, part of the standard protocol in the US is to *avoid* fasting, in fact they advise everyone to eat three full meals per day, but smaller meals, to avoid long times without.

Now, from what I've learned and speculated, this may oversimplify in a number of areas, but I've been following it anyway.  Of course *exercise* is hugely important in managing type2 diabetes, I hope you're getting an hour or more of good walking in, and at least a few minutes of weight/resistance exercise as well?

8

Look at Dr Biswaroop Roy Chowdry. He does talks on diabetes and reckons you can eat as much fruit as you like I use cinnamon in my diet also baobab powder. I am not an expert on my condition but am very aware of what keeps my levels in the normal range. I mostly avoid starchy carbs and eat organic meat,veg, fruit. I even buy organic milk.

9

there was just an article that the glyphosate herbicide "Roundup" is found at high levels in oatmeal that is not labelled as organic or non-GMO (although organic is not the same as non-GMO is it!, though some are both).  Otherwise oatmeal is sometimes recommended for diabetes as having a very high glycemic index, even though it is starchy.  FWIW.  Just got myself some organic/non-GMO to try.

10

Organic is always best I believe. When I was young most things were organic. When I travelled by train you saw farm workers in the fields now its chemicals and machinery. Also there were always cows and sheep out grazing in the fields but even that has changed. A few years ago when I read that grass fed beef and dairy was better for you, I thought well what else would they be eating except grass. I was shocked when I found out. It is a whole different world now and not always for the better I feel.

11

You are a wise person.  I'm not sure exactly what is causing regular people to develop diabetes type 2, but I have a few suspects.  One is food that is grown on poor soil using chemical fertilizer and then picked green and allowed to ripen later.  All these things cause fruit and vegetable to be low on natural minerals and vitamins.

Also, I have noticed some warning on new medications that they may cause 'high blood sugar'.  Interesting that they won't use the term 'Diabetes'. 

Plus it probably wears out our pancreas when we grow up eating sugar pops and donuts and stuff.  But, like jx41870, I believe our body can heal and relearn to deal with natural sugars and fruit.

12

If you have seen the scale prediction of diabetes in the US, it is quite alarming.  The graph shows a spike in diabetes and almost goes straight up as if almost everyone will eventually be diabetic  This was not the case 100 years ago.  Throughout history people have eaten fresh vegetable, fruit, milk, grains, and meat. 

Today food is more available, but is often lacking mineral and vitamins.  I was taking nexium for a few years to deal with my stomach issues.  Later I was diagnosed type 2 diabetic.  We have no family history of diabetes so I attributed it to the nexium which is made from a patented form of magnesium.  If fact, the body will soon become magnesium deficient and a healthy person can suffer a hip or leg breakage caused by weak bones.  It can also damage organs.  So, after I stopped the nexium, I made sure I take a full spectrum of minerals every day and eat organic fruits and vegetables every day.  A huge salad every day can do wonders.

As far as doctors are concerned, I found that they are not interested in curing people but rather in treating the condition and 'controlling' it.

Unfortunately, Diabetes can end up causing major organ failure and eventually require toes, feet and legs to be amputated.  It is not a condition to just 'treat'.  If there is anything that needs to be cured, it is diabetes.  I think we are both on the same track. just slightly different methods.

I have heard of two new diets out there that involve fasting.  Both are modified.  One is eating 3 meals then fast for 16 hours a day.  The other is fasting 3 days a week, only drinking vegetable juice.

I really think fasting is a big part of the answer, because it allows the cells to clear out the free insulin.  But, of course exercising can do the same thing, just a different method.  And, yes I do take a Metformin every evening after dinner.

13

Hi Jonathan, well diabetes is not really new, and there may not be just one reason why it's more common, we all have too much food and not enough exercise and live longer and those are all "natural" enough but we still get it anyway!

Y'know, if someone had just given me a BG meter, and explained the numbers, and taught me to count carbs, BEFORE I was diagnosed, I'll bet that would have helped a lot.  Maybe just the carb counting would have given me enough head start to avoid all problems.

Or at least, maybe I should have started taking a small dose of metformin a couple of years earlier.  My A1C and BG numbers were just marginal, but I just could not lose about 20 pounds that jumped on me.  Who knows.  Now I've lost that 20 and another 20 too, that I didn't even realize I ought to lose but I guess it's still good.  The carb counting is a part of it, but I think the metformin probably is, too.

The thing is, as I understand it, metformin keeps your liver from pushing out too much BG.  But why was your liver pushing out too much BG in the first place?  Nobody knows.  But one thing that triggers the liver to push out BG is - fasting.  That is, when your exercise and activity and metabolism use up the normal amount of BG, then your liver wakes up and pushes glycogen into BG.  So maybe fasting and metformin are going to work against each other, to some extent.

Just a thought.  Nobody seems to really have a complete handle on what all the mechanisms are or how to measure them anyway.  But we're all free to try stuff and then try to figure out why or how it works.

14

I would agree with the 20 'extra' pounds and being a suspicious culprit.  I am about 20lb overweight.  But, I am also a troubleshooter.  I consider other people and what they are doing and their weight.  On the whole, I know quite a few people that are 50 to 100 lbs overweight,  but, no diabetes.  It is all very odd, and hard to get a handle on all the facts.  Another interesting fact, is people who are in rest homes or paralyzed are not exercising, yet not all of these people get diabetes, in fact few become new diabetics.  I have not finished my investigations but when I do, maybe I will write a book. 

15

Well I also didn't mention as almost too obvious but one should always be thorough - there is a genetic component!

And other considerations, even chance!  You can have a predisposition but whether you ever run into the exact triggers, or when, can matter, too.