Nails and COPD

Somewhere there was a discussion where people thought concave or curving nails where one of the symptoms of COPD. I personally didn't think this was the case and thought people should check in with their doc about it, to be sure there was nothing else underlying that could be the cause.

Quite by chance I came upon this information today and thought to share it (note the bold type reference to spoon shaped and concave nails):

Brittle nails or splitting of the nail bed from the nail plate can also be induced by several major systemic disease states. This includes kidney diseases that cause a buildup of nitrogen waste products in the blood and liver diseases such as chronic liver failure. Nails may also become brittle due to changes that occur during pregnancy, or they may be associated with endocrine disorders such as hypoparathyroidism, thyroid disorders, gout, and diabetes mellitus. Spoon-shaped nails (koilonychia) are associated with many disease states-specifically iron-deficiency anemia, trauma, Raynaud's disease, syphilis, diabetes, or hemochromatosis-or it may be a normal, inherited condition. These nails become thin and concave with raised edges and are often brittle.

this from pharmacy times web.

Happy global COPD

V

Is this a joke? Because I don't get the punch line. :?: :?: :?:

Maryann

[quote:012dbccad8=\"Anonymous\"]Is this a joke? Because I don't get the punch line. :?: :?: :?:

Maryann

Hi Maryann

Its not a joke. Belief it or not there really was a discussion indicating people thought that the nail disorder could be connected to COPD.

V

So, are we now to ignore all medical texts, Doctors etc. that attribute downward curling fingernails to lung disease in general, and low oxygen levels in particular, in favour of the word of 'v'?. I am sure we would all love to know your credentials! '.

[quote:3cca77b3fa=\"another visitor \"]So, are we now to ignore all medical texts, Doctors etc. that attribute downward curling fingernails to lung disease in general, and low oxygen levels in particular, in favour of the word of 'v'?. I am sure we would all love to know your credentials! '.

That's entirely up to you Van - as is checking with your doc to make sure it is not any other underlying condition.

Just trying to help. Would hate to think anyone would put their own health at risk by just putting everything down to COPD.

Of course if a doc or professional medical advise is sought often a patient is sent for tests, blood, urine etc to eliminate any other cause, other than COPD.

It makes good sense to do this, don't you agree?

Please don't feel you have to favour the word of 'V', I'm just sharing my personal opinion and experiences as you are also doing.

Have a good day Van

Finger nail growth can indicate any number of health conditions. In addition .....

Downward curved nail ends may denote heart, liver, or respiratory problem as mentioned in the 'Little Things' thread relating to the previous discussion on this subject.

Have a great day peeps.

V

[quote:5b027b8aeb=\"Visitor \"][quote:5b027b8aeb=\"Anonymous\"]Is this a joke? Because I don't get the punch line. :?: :?: :?:

Maryann

Its not a joke. Belief it or not there really was a discussion indicating people thought that the nail disorder could be connected to COPD.

V

I saw vanessa's post last summer and did not connect - but now my mum has the same thing with her nails. They grow very fast but curl down onto the top of her finger instead of growing straight. I asked her respiratry nurse and she says it is probably because of the copd and oxygen because this can cause it and she has heard about it a lot. My friend does nails and she says the ridges can mean osteoporosis or just getting older.

Sorry, forgot to add my name to the above

Suzie

Hi Suzie

I believe medications and diet deficiencies can interfere with nail and hair growth too.

I was concerned that people didn't automatically assume nail irregularity is because of COPD and felt it very important that people experiencing irregularities consultant with their doctor to be sure it is not any other underlying health problem.

As previously mentioned I believe it is recommended that because:

\"Nail changes may signify a number of disorders elsewhere in the body. These changes may indicate illness before any other symptoms do\"

and that \"it is recommended that medical attention be sought about any nail irregularities\".

Wishing all the very best.

V

Hi All,

I think that we should never take anything for granted and any physical changes should be checked by a Medical Doctor to rule out any other underlying problems that may exist. The danger for me is that I can blame COPD for all my aches and pains and not consult a Doctor when I should.

Regards,

Robert.

Hi Robert

I know what you mean, I was blaming my heart prob on the COPD, its exactly the same symptoms, breathlessness and tight pain in chest on exertion, it wasn't until I started getting the palpitations that I thought I should get it checked. But honestly I did think all symptoms were down to the COPD until that started.

Keep warm all and breathe good.

V

I know that the original posters on this topic were from quite some time ago, yet if anyone new encounters this site and reads regarding nail manifestations and symptoms, I have to agree with the poster who came across research and evidence which linked nail abnormalities and other systemic disease...it IS indeed true, and horizontal nail ridges in toes, fingernails, concave, curved, split, peeling from the ends, all have links to a condition, as was listed, of hemochromatosis, which is a genetic disorder that affects iron storage in the body.

As one poster questioned, is this a joke?...sorry, no. Punch line is, that the longer you have undetected iron deposits in your body the more damage it does, and this condition has outward manifestations like skin, nails, eyes, and leads to other systemic disease such as diabetes, cancer, liver cirrhosis, heart failure, thyroid issues and many more. You can look it up for yourselves...damage done from excess iron is extensive and life-threatening due to results of organ damage, joint, and tissue damage. Usually people are only diagnosed in end stages, when more serious health problems arise, but if dr.s more tuned in to earlier warning signs, early prevention of other disease can be initiated.

My husband was just diagnosed last month...I too have high iron and levels of saturation are too high, I just found out and I have nail deformites on hands and toes, other people report blueish nails or horizontal blue lines as well as ridges, vertical and horizontal. Psoriatic nails such as this are found in people with psoriasis, and psoriasis is linked to people who have been found to have iron overload disease.

Really excellent research available on all types of complications/disorders/disease commonly known to people yet root cause is iron deposition in organs, tissues, and joints.

Take care

Never said about this when I got copd tested was the nails how the doctor found the lungs bad in you or husband.

The waterman one still writes stuff but not any others in a year looking back for stuff about bad chest.

HI there, were you wondering about chest problems, or lungs? Not quite sure what symptoms you are refering to, but with iron overload early warning signs are often missed, and excess iron affects the liver, heart, pancreas, brain, causing all sorts of issues that the dr diagnose as something else. The reason the nail thing caught my eye is that this could be also a sign found in people with iron overload. Multiple organs are affected, tissues, and joints. Auto-immune disorders result, liver damage, congestive heart failure is common, diabetes due to cirrhosis and pancreatic damage, and there are many others.

"Advanced COPD can lead to complications beyond the lungs, such as weight loss (cachexia), pulmonary hypertension and right-sided heart failure (cor pulmonale). Osteoporosis, heart disease, muscle wasting and depression are all more common in people with COPD.[4]" Quoted from Wiki

Common among people with iron overload are the above mentioned complications. My husband has had much problem through life with bronchitis. I have many sinus infections that come and go, stuffed nose, coughing, sometimes dry sometimes with phlegm, tightness in chest, burning lungs, heart palipitations and irregular heart beat, shortness of breath and feeling of faintness, profuse sweating during an episode of not being able to breath or get enough breath or oxygen...

We now understand all the realtionships there are between iron storage in the body and failure of body's systems and organs to function properly. Blood flow is one important complication and blood vessels blockages and damage in legs and other parts of the body.

In fact, Dr. Zamboni had found the research on iron and how it damages blood vessels in legs restricting the blood flow and making blockages, and so because his wife was debilatated with MS he decided to look into the blood vessels going to her brain and indeed they were blocked, preventing the blood flowing out of the brain to drain properly, creating deposits of iron on her brain. He did an operation and unblocked her arteries, restored blood flow and cured her MS. Even her lesions on her brain disappeared and for over 3 years she has not had any more MS attacks. Other patients he has done this on have experienced amazing results. Iron is a major corrupting influence in our bodies when we store too much. And everything we eat and take in has iron, and so much food we have is fortified and enriched, so we are putting in and not putting out if our bodies are programmed to store iron. It is very common, but drs are slow to recognize early signs and symptoms or dagnose people with other more common ailments like fibromyalgia, and osteo arthritis, IBS...

I could go on forever, but if you are ken to find out look up on irondisorders.org or ironoverload.org and get so much more info than I can explain.

Cheers.

Can nails be used to diagnose hypochondria it would certainly appear that is the case with self diagnosis being based on perceived threats. Be careful what you read lest you die of a miss-spelling.

I think that the original post and discussion referred to nail curling as a possible sign of low oxygen levels in the blood due to having C.O.P.D. Quote from Mayo Clinic - ''Clubbing of your nails — when your nails curve much more than usual — is often a sign of low oxygen levels in the blood and may be related to lung disease.'' Low oxygen levels as a result of having C.O.P.D. can be easily checked by your Doctor or Chest Consultant, if you are concerned, by using an Oximeter. C.O.P.D. is usually diagnosed by your Doctor or Chest Consultant, if you have one, by using a Spirometer. Hypochondria is usually diagnosed by your Doctor as well lol.

Regards,

Robert

Hi waterman is there any news on V2 long time since the last article was written. Do hope it is nothing serious keeping them away from all the positive advise.

Regards

Tru

Just to further the conversation regarding nail abnormalities...if anyone is wondering...or wishes to rule out hypochondria...

Quote from American Family Physician website...

Nail Abnormalities: Clues to Systemic Disease

Robert S. Fawcett, M.D., M.S., Thomas M. Hart Family Practice Residency Program, York Hospital, York, Pennsylvania

Sean Linford, M.D., and Daniel L. Stulberg, M.D., Utah Valley Family Practice Residency Program, Provo, Utah

Am Fam Physician. 2004 Mar 15;69(6):1417-1424.

The visual appearance of the fingernails and toenails may suggest an underlying systemic disease. Clubbing of the nails often suggests pulmonary disease or inflammatory bowel disease. Koilonychia, or “spoon-shaped” nails, may stimulate a work-up for hemochromatosis or anemia. In the absence of trauma or psoriasis, onycholysis should prompt a search for symptoms of hyperthyroidism. The finding of Beau’s lines may indicate previous severe illness, trauma, or exposure to cold temperatures in patients with Raynaud’s disease. In patients with Muehrcke’s lines, albumin levels should be checked, and a work-up done if the level is low. Splinter hemorrhage in patients with heart murmur and unexplained fever can herald endocarditis. Patients with telangiectasia, koilonychia, or pitting of the nails may have connective tissue disorders.

Careful examination of the fingernails and toenails can provide clues to underlying systemic diseases (Table 1). Clubbing, which is one example of a nail manifestation of systemic disease, was first described by Hippocrates in the fifth century B.C.1 Since that time, many more nail abnormalities have been found to be clues to underlying systemic disorders.

The nail plate is the hard keratin cover of the dorsal portion of the distal phalanx. The nail plate is generated by the nail matrix at the proximal portion of the nail bed (Figure 1). As the nail grows, the distal part of the matrix produces the deeper layers of the nail plate, while the proximal portion makes the superficial layers. This production is important, because a disruption of function in the proximal matrix (as may occur in patients with psoriasis) results in more superficial nail problems (e.g., pitting). A disruption of the distal matrix may cause problems with the deeper layers, resulting in ridging or splitting. A transient problem causing growth disturbance may lead to the formation of transverse lines across the nail plate, as in Mees’, Muehrcke’s, and Beau’s lines (Figure 2). Changes in the configuration of the capillaries in the proximal nail bed are responsible for some of the alterations that occur in patients with connective tissue disorders, while abnormalities in the periosteal vessels contribute to clubbing.2

TABLE 1

Nail Findings and Associated Systemic Conditions

Nail finding Associated systemic conditions

Shape or growth change

Clubbing

Inflammatory bowel disease, pulmonary malignancy, asbestosis, chronic bronchitis, COPD, cirrhosis, congenital heart disease, endocarditis, atrioventricular malformations, fistulas

Koilonychia

Iron deficiency anemia, hemochromatosis, Raynaud’s disease, SLE, trauma, nail-patella syndrome

Onycholysis

Psoriasis, infection, hyperthyroidism, sarcoidosis, trauma, amyloidosis, connective tissue disorders

Pitting

Psoriasis, Reiter’s syndrome, incontinentia pigmenti, alopecia areata

Beau’s lines

Any severe systemic illness that disrupts nail growth, Raynaud’s disease, pemphigus, trauma

Yellow nail

Lymphedema, pleural effusion, immunodeficiency, bronchiectasis, sinusitis, rheumatoid arthritis, nephrotic syndrome, thyroiditis, tuberculosis, Raynaud’s disease

Color change

Terry’s (white) nails

Hepatic failure, cirrhosis, diabetes mellitus, CHF, hyperthyroidism, malnutrition

Azure lunula

Hepatolenticular degeneration (Wilson’s disease), silver poisoning, quinacrine therapy

Half-and-half nails

Specific for renal failure

Muehrcke’s lines

Specific for hypoalbuminemia

Mees’ lines

Arsenic poisoning, Hodgkin’s disease, CHF, leprosy, malaria, chemotherapy, carbon monoxide poisoning, other systemic insults

Dark longitudinal streaks

Melanoma, benign nevus, chemical staining, normal variant in darkly pigmented people

Longitudinal striations

Alopecia areata, vitiligo, atopic dermatitis, psoriasis

Splinter hemorrhage

Subacute bacterial endocarditis, SLE, rheumatoid arthritis, antiphospholipid syndrome, peptic ulcer disease, malignancies, oral contraceptive use, pregnancy, psoriasis, trauma

Telangiectasia

Rheumatoid arthritis, SLE, dermatomyositis, scleroderma

COPD = chronic obstructive pulmonary disease; SLE = systemic lupus erythematosus; CHF = congestive heart failure.

End quote...

Take care...cheers

Hi Tru,

Since the new site format has got up and running I'm afraid that I dont recognise any of the names of people who post now. Not sure if the ''V2'' you speak of is the same person as the V that I knew but I sent V, who used to post, a personal message some time ago but received no reply so I dont know how she is. Some of the people who used to post may have changed there names but I really dont know about that. It is a shame that so few people do post now as I miss reading about other COPD sufferer's experiences and treatments that help me to keep informed. I am not an expert in the treatment of COPD but I know what it is like to suffer from the disease but also recognise that not every bodies experiences are the same as mine. Thankfully I have the support of a Chest Consultant, a good Doctor, great Respiratory Nurses and Pulmonary Maintenance Staff who I can liaise with at any time. I know what it is like to suffer headaches, bad leg cramps, sweats, sore throats, stomach problems and other side effects from medications that cause me to wonder are the treatments worse than the disease. I also know what it is like when I try to stop the treatments and cant breathe the frustration of, what seems like a vicious cycle, to go back onto medications again. I know the frustration I feel when I cannot do the things that I used to do and the depression that comes from time to time. Please dont think that I am complaining as I am very thankful to God that I am as well as I am. I meet many people each week at Pulmonary Maintenance who are, very much, worse than I am and sadly some that I have known have passed away and are missed. One of V,s tips regarding gargling after inhalers was a great help to me as I ended up with a severe septic throat before I read her post. Thank you V if you are reading. Others experiences and advice re DHSS claims, benefits and allowances, travel insurance and many other posts have also been a great help in making life that little bit easier for me. Thank you every body who has posted in the past and are posting now.

Regards,

Robert

Don't let shallow, unthougthful comments get to you, most people understand exactly which type of spirit you made your comment Limpet with, those who do not, well that has to do with their own mentality, not yours..

This should be from experiences not copy and paste with only small mention of lung disease as doubtless there is no understanding of the content.

There are a number of people I've noticed or spoken to here who are very kind, inspiring, interesting, some of them I came to hear, though suffering with COPD continue to smoke, that bit is something I cannot get, as I was so hooked but knew I had to stop, I surprised myself when I succeeded, but I KNEW I had to!

I do not get, if a person feels so bad and knows what caused it, how they can then continue with that thing that is destroying themselves, one might as well jump under a bus, because you know you are killing yourself and it's just the same, maybe you and we all didn't know properly before becoming ill, but once you are ill and hurting, surely you have to be nuts to keep on smoking.