I would love to know if anyone on this forum besides jimjames gets a natural void after doing CIC,and had complete urine retention? Even a small amount of natural void? This information would be a big hope for all who do CIC.
I know there have been others, but I don't remember their names.
I've been doing cic now for about two years which is the time frame that JJ indicated was when he first noticed improvement. Over this time I've been gradually getting urges at a lower retention level; that is my PVR is less when I cath after this. It used to be that I'd have to have @400 in retention before I could do a NV. Now I get urges at a much lower level. Still seems like I have to have over about 300 ml before I can have a decent NV. I can usually have small NVs now every day. couldn't say that two years ago.
nope still waiting hope springs eternal
hi arlington
how long are you doing cic ? aisling
There are folks who have reported they regained the ability to void naturally after doing CIC. I am not one of them yet. I have been doing it for 22 months. I was retaining 1.5L before I started. I do get the urge now with much less in the bladder, but no flow yet. CIC is much better than what I was experiencing before I started.
Ask your doctor for a prescription for a diuretic. I have been on it for a number of years and it helps with a good flow after having full retention. There may be some who dispute this but they have not discussed this with their doctor. Beware of herbals and supplements that are unregulated because they do nothing.
Frank, just to clarify, you used "complete urine retention". I know you are referring to what some urological texts refer to it as "chronic complete urinary retention" or "chronic total urinary retention". The keyword is "chronic" which means that the patient has been having this condition for a while. He cannot pee much, usually not at all, without a catheter of some types. In comparison, Acute Urinary Retention (AUR) refers to a temporary complete urine retention that can be resolved by some types of catherization, usually with a Foley, to drain the bladder. After a period of catherization, few hours or few days, the patient can pee by himself again. People recovered from AUR all the time, but from CCUR/CTUR, I haven't heard of, without a procedure, except for Jim James. The bladder is just a muscle and CIC is just gives it rest. The rest depends on the individual. Regarding natural voiding, for some people, CIC helps. For others, it doesn't. I've read that it even got worse for some people. Many lost their natural voiding after staring CIC. I have been doing CIC for over 3 years and I have concluded for myself. CIC helps to control the retention but does not help my natural void. Actually, whenever I became lazy and started CICing too often, my natural voiding worsened. It makes sense since the bladder didn't get the exercise it needed so it weakened. To maintain some natural void while doing CIC does require some efforts and some management. If you don't use the muscle, you'll lose it.
My doctor called it nonsense but gave me diuretic anyway. Been taking it for months with no improvements. I read your other posts. What you had was an AUR and you had a procedure, with months of catherzization. The procedure and the catherization are what help your urinary retention, not the diuretic.
Yes, Frank, I fall into that category, and I must say all credit due to JimJames who inspired me! It is a slow process but I am now on an average of 50/50 between natural void and catheter assisted for a total void of 400 - 550 ml. I CIC three times a day, sometimes four if my bladder has filled enough. I must point out that I have experienced total retention very rarely and only when provoked by eating really hot (spicy) food. Last time required a visit to the ER, where they had to cath me and got 800 ml out of me. My urodynamic "total fill", about three years ago, was 702 ml.
Frank, I hope this is helpful to you, but if you have more questions please feel free to contact me (use the PM feature if you are "off topic").
Warm regards, alan86734.
Alan,
Can you explain your rational for not doing something more radical but minimally invasive, like PAE or Resum, or water ablation, while going for inconvenience and expense of CIC three times per day and dealing catheters in your pocket all day long? I had only a couple of acute retentions due to the surgery and drinking too much alcohol, but found CIC painful, causing bleeding, leading to UTI and possible stricture of the urethra and damaging the prostate an bladder neck, possibly the bladder wall. Why to go to such extent if a wide choice of reliable and affordable (or insurance covered services) exist.
That may be so but my daily take of the diuretic has prevented retention from recurring. If your doctor gave it to you it was not nonsense. Give it another few months. Is the inconvenience of CIC restoring it any quicker?
I had several years of struggling to pee and chronic retention. To cut a very long story short i had a permanent catheter attached for three weeks and them CIC for several months. Incrediby for whatever reason i began to pee so much better , from an average of 3 ( i cant remember the units used) to 12. I Also no longer have retention and only CiC now if i have a serious amount of beer !
hank1953, Hi , I am referring to chronic urine retention. I have been doing CIC almost 3 years ,with no natural void. I was told I should do Turp with no guaranty I will have a NV. I didn't want Turp so i do CIC. You said you also do CIC, however you do have a NV? Did you have a procedure done?Jimjames said his urologist also wanted to do Turp,he refused and after 2 or 3 years he was blessed to get a NV. I was concerned if anyone else on this forum got that lucky? Can you tell me how to reach jimjames? frank,
How do you exercise that muscle though? The heart is referred to as a muscle also. I guess you exercise it with aerobics and such.
I understand that one can push a little while doing cic and this may exercise the bladder a bit to keep it from getting lazy. But I would think draining it and not letting it get stretched any more than it already is (for some of us) at least is a good strategy at first. The girl that did my ultrasound on my bladder two years ago - this is before they figured out what was going on - said that my bladder was stretched almost up to my navel. All the feeling had gone as far as urges to urinate. I think I was miserable at some level but it wasn't an urge to pee. That is coming back. Seems like at first the nerves are overly sensitive and if I don't give in and cath right away it will go away for awhile. If I thought I was retaining over 400 ml at that point; such as if I hadn't cathed for 6 hours or something; then I'd go ahead and do it. But knowing how much I had had to drink and the last time I cathed I wouldn't give in to the urge at first. Now, the urges seem more manageable sort of like it used to be.
BTW - I haven't had a UTI in the last two years. Either I'm careful or just lucky.
5 years this July
Hi Alan,
Do you have an enlarged median lobe?
Hi dcooper,
Do you have an enlarged median lobe?
Hi arlington, You say doing CIC 5 years.Did you have chronic urine retention,or do you have some NV> PS this message to me . I'm still doing CIC i have chronic urine retention> thanks, frank
Hi Frank, 1. I do have natural void but I am struggling to keep it. I am also taking doxazosin. Without it, my natural void is little. 2. Many if not most people that have chronic complete retention will not get back their natural void, without a procedure. I know some that did CIC for 11 years without improvements in natural voiding. CIC is actually a good thing. It allows risk aversed people like us a way to empty our bladders and protect our kidneys. Some people with more serious bladder will not get natural void, even with a procedure. 3. The best way to get in touch with jimjames is searching one of the older threads and PM him. 4. Your best chance of getting your natural void is with a procedure, though there is no guarantee. With your serious symptoms, I'd go for something very robust. At your age, I don't think RE is a problem. TURP is robust but too bloody, unless it's bipolar/button TURP. HoLEP is your best shot. Next would be robotic prostatectomy.