New FS procedure- Hydroplasty, My experience...

Bones, joints and muscles
1

Hi all, I'm new to this group, but I thought I'd share. I had a new (& hard to find info on) procedure for my FS called a hydroplasty. It is sort of a combination of hydrodilation and MUA only you are awake- for EVERYTHING. The injection part wasn't so bad. My ortho stated my adhesions were very thick and tight, but you could feel the 'pop'. Then came the manipulation. I wanted to die. I was lying there with tears streaming down my face, writhing in pain for some parts, and the PT kept saying "just a little further". For me, it was barbaric. I would rather have been sedated (I think it would have been more effective that way, too- the body relaxes and doesn't fight against the pain). VERY sore at home. And now "aggressive PT" for 5 days straight. And I have only gained about 5° improvement.

I'm happy to answer any questions.

2

I think this sounds barbaric!   I had hydrodilatation for both my frozen shoulders followed by gentle physiotherapy, starting about 5 days later - that worked for me.    I hope it works out for you in the long term but sorry you had to go through such trauma.

3

Oh my gosh.  This experience shounds like it was so awful with the manipulation part. I had MUA and first received a block via needle in neck to the nerve.  So, when I woke from the MUA, my arm was in a sling for about 20 hours for safety because I could not feel my arm at all.  I did, however, go to a physical therapy session. later the same day I had the MUA done and they took my arm out of the sling and moved my arm all over the place to start keep motion going.  I am a little over 2 weeks past MUA now and have been able to slowly build enough muscle and get some main ROM back.  Still issues reaching behind back and the supine external and internal rotation move.  But, the PT sessions include them stretching my arm out quite a bit, which is truly impossible for me to achieve on my own at home, so am hoping the ROM co tinues to get better each day.  I wish I had the hydrodilatation done with the MUA though to really help free up the capsule.  Best of luck to you and hoping for a speedy healing time,  

4

Did this involve steroids because I'm alllergoc to prednisalone and worried about treatment . I have been offered an MUA but not hydrolisation is this using water to help the joint move (instead of tearing it under anesthetia which is what I'm worried about .?

5

Yes, but I'm not sure of the exact type that he used off hand, or if it would have any type of reaction similar to prednisone?

In my research I did find that the cortisone was used to help reduce the inflammation, perhaps in your case they could omit that- just a thought.

6

I'm sure I sound like a real wimp based on that initial post- sorry about that. Let me give a little back story... I'm an EMT and I injured my shoulder moving a patient almost a year ago. I did months of physical therapy, had 3 cortisone injections to no avail. My dx was traumatic impingement syndrome. Ended up having surgery in the fall, AC decompression, subcoracoid decompression, distal clavicular excision. My bursa was huge and very inflammed, removed a bone spur. Everthing went well. Started PT, mobility was improving, strength was improving. Then it just started to hurt more and my rom started to decrease. You all know how the rest of that goes...

I'm no stranger to pain, post op shoulder pain is not fun- lots of nerves in there. I've been "blessed" with a kidney stone before.

And this manipulation after the injection ranks right up there with one of the most painful things I've experienced.

I can deal with pain (it's temporary) . I just don't want it to be for nothing.

7

I think what you are talking about would be a much better option, the MUA with the hydrodilation. The other option my doc talked about was another surgery to remove the adhesions and do the manipulations while I was under, but he felt that was too aggressive at this stage (right now I'm wishing we would have just done that- but that's probably just the pain talking). I'm glad you have such better movement tho! Keep moving, hopefully your progress will continue to build smile

8

How long did you have fs before you did this?  From all the research I did everyone stated that it takes a long time but it goes away on its own. I know the pain gets unbearable especially at night but to work through that pain over the pain after Mua I think would be better. I am almost better now after 9 months and just stretching and massage. 

9

Honestly, I can't say for certain. But I can tell you not nearly as long as the typical FS patient; and there are a couple of reasons for that. I have secondary FS - it was brought on immediately following my shoulder surgery (And i was only in a sling for 2 days) and have no known immune disorders that would attack an injury like that, and secondly I can't work without my arm. Being an EMT requires heavy lifting and I've already been out of work for several months- and I'm anxiously awaiting to get back to it. My surgeon agreed that having me out, just giving it time, wouldn't benefit anybody, so we opted for a semi aggressive treatment plan. The only thing more aggressive would have been surgical removal of the adhesions. I really just want to get back to doing what I do. Another 9-24 months out of work would be more than depressing- and I really don't want to find a new career, I love what I do.

10

Dear News, 

I had MUA with nerve blockage November 30th. The surgeon removed bone spurs. I’ve been in PT 3x eeek since then. I can honestly say, what an improvement. Have to take pain meds for PT or I couldn’t stand it. Even with pain meds-it is painful. I am now in the strength building phase

11

I have read about that treatment and it does sound barbaric. I was offered surgery or aggressive manipulation and PT. As I was unable to handle any movement because of the excruciating pain. listened to my body & opted to wait for the thawing. Not sure if there is any good option. Some people heal faster than others. Will be interesting to hear how you make out. I agree that traumatising a patient is totally counterproductive as that stays with you in many forms. I had problems for 12 years afterwards and was helped by acupuncture. When I asked the practitioner how she "cured" me she said my "chi (or energy) was blocked".  I took that to mean my body was holding on to the pain somehow and always responded by tightening up. Whatever it was, it worked beautifully. Getting "unblocked" was also a very uncomfortable process, but certainly worth it.

12

I see now that you are eager to return to a very physical job. My thawing took three long years so that would not have worked for you. Still think your procedure should have been done with you being put out for a while. No need to experience such pain when there are alternatives. I wonder if people who haven't had this problem (like the doctors, etc) realize the true extent of pain. 

13

Beverly, I am very interested in learning more about your acupuncture experience and the process of being “unblocked.”  I did some reading on how these type of conditions may well be related to your Chakra and emotional well being.  It’s my left shoulder. I’m seriously considering a holistic approach.  

Ive had FS since September 2017 and have had X-ray, cortisone shot, PT, and really no response. Waiting to see a shoulder specialist.  This has been debilitating and a negative impact.  

Any more info you could provide - I’m all ears!   

14

Stef, I'm not sure how much more I can add. I chose to let it take its course which was a full 3 years which pretty much deformed my upper torso. When it thawed I still did not have full mobility, as  the three years of contortions while trying to function really left me a mess. I did try everything I could think of to no avail. Chiropractic was a waste of time as was PT. Massage provided temporary relief, particularly acupressure, but the knots and spasms continued for 12 years. I just assumed I would have the problem for the rest of my life. Had tried acupuncture previously, but my reaction was extreme in that I passed out. The acupuncturists become very nervous, so I gave up. Visited a  3rd  acupuncturist who used herbs for another problem. That seemed to prove successful, so I asked her if she would be willing to try acupuncture on me. I felt if my body was that sensitive to it it may prove to be my salvation if someone could administer it properly (for me). She was willing and she cured me! I went for 5 or 6 visits and it was actually quite painful, which people say acupuncture is not the case, but I am sensitive to it. 

Needless to say, I am a great believer in acupuncture and recommend it to everyone. I would go more often, but the cost is too high. I did return when my other shoulder started to feel as though it was freezing. A few sessions seemed to do the trick, or it is possible it was just a milder "case". Healing is sort of a nebulous thing. Never quite sure if the body is doing it on its own or if it is the medicine, etc.

15

Thanks for the info,  so sorry you endured this for so long!  Once I see the shoulder specialist and get an mri, I will discuss with him/her options and what I have researched.  Bottom line is I need relief.   

Appreciate the the info once again!!  I am hopeful!

16

So sorry you had that experience.  Have you had any improvement from the procedure?  Hoping you're well.

17

Hi StefO, I agree with you on a natural, holistic approach. I currently have two frozen shoulders, the left 11 months in and the right just about 7 weeks.  After doing some exercises that made it worse, I stopped and have been doing whatever regular movements I can do without pain.  The left shoulder has had a significant decrease in pain and some increase in ROM.  The right shoulder is in the freezing stage and, as you know, hurts a great deal!

I'm wondering if you followed through with the acupuncture and if so, what your results have been.  Hoping you, and all of us, heal quickly and completely!

 

18

Since my post 5 months ago, I am now in your same boat.  My right shoulder started "freezing" about 2 months ago, while my left shoulder appears to be "thawing,"  because I have less pain, and ROM is increasing.  Still can't reach behind back very well, but do not have the constant "ache" at night. The orthopedic recommended a few options; physical therapy, cortisone shot into the joint to "open" up the capsule, manipulation, and surgery.  He wanted to give me the shot at the initial appointment, but I was hesitant, since I had a shot from my PCM and I saw no change.  I opted for physical therapy, and after several weeks at $30 a co-pay ($90 a week!), I realized I could do most of the exercises myself and quit.  The PT would massage and "work" my left shoulder/arm area until it was really sore, even causing a bruise at one point, so I didn't go back.  I was supposed to get dry needling (Ortho recommended) but the PT said it wouldn't help, so I never got the treatment.  So, I do exercises myself and also use a lacrosse ball as a way to "foam roll" my pecs, scapula area, and arm area from shoulder to elbow. This allow self-myofascial release therapy and has provided relief and seems to help with ROM.   I should probably be doing these daily, but am only doing about 3-4 times a week.

        I have not gone back to the Ortho to get the shot or to get the diagnosis on the right shoulder - I know what it is, so I am just trying to deal with it.   I am going to go back online this weekend to research acupuncture, as I really, really want to try that route - I had seen Groupon's for places before, so hopefully, I can try it without breaking the bank.

       I have found relief for the pain at night with a product from Doterra Essential Oils - it is a proprietary lotion called "Deep Blue" and soothes the pain to help me sleep. I apply just a dime size and spread allover right shoulder area to the elbow, as my pain right now is there. If you are not familiar with that product brand, and are interested, just let me know.  I also purchased a few products to assist me with getting dressed (still can't believe I have to, but it helps) - 1 in particular is "Zip my dress" - I got off Amazon and it is allowed me to zip dresses by myself - very helpful for getting ready for work.

       Seems like we are very similar in our shoulder timeframes for both right and left - kind of interesting!   Please keep me posted on what is working/not working for you - am very interested!

19

Oh no!  So sorry you are going through this with your other shoulder too!  It makes life so challenging!

The freezing stage in my right shoulder seems to be much more painful than the left was, but that's perhaps because we forget the pain to some degree once it's passed.  

I have finally broken down and am taking some Aleve along with Prilosec to minimize any stomach issues.  I just started that protocol yesterday when it became obvious that my herbal painkiller Akuamma, which has always worked wonders for me, wasn't going to be enough.  I will take it for a week or ten days and hopefully some of the intense pain and inflammation will have subsided by then.

I am using a TENS unit on my trapezius muscles, they have been very tight and achy, I don't know if you are having that experience.  I am doing it twice a day for 15-20 minutes each time and it seems like it is helping.

Thanks for the tip on the Deep Blue, I have used it for other issues but I have run out of it. I have been using a blend of wintergreen and peppermint which helps.  I will order some more of the Deep Blue, so thanks for that reminder.

I have not been doing any exercises at all.  It seemed like every time I did on my left (the first frozen) shoulder, it just hurt so much more.  I have just been using it normally as I can and I am noticing improved ROM and definitely decreased pain.  I have been researching like crazy and feel that for me, no exercises until the thawing stage.  I think I'm getting to that point with the left shoulder, so I may begin to incorporate some self-myofascial release such as you are talking about, especially since you say that it is giving you relief.  I just won't do it on my right shoulder, it's still far too painful and still in the freezing stage.

I read a great blog called My Frozen Shoulder Story.  I'd post a link for you here but I don't think links are allowed.  I think you would find it very interesting.  It's at blogspot dot com after My Frozen Shoulder Story.  If you can't find it, let me know and we can connect outside of this forum so I can give you the link.  Basically, after trying lots of stuff, she decided to do absolutely nothing and it completely resolved itself in 18 months.  It's a good read, and I resonate with it.  Of course, she only had one FS, so there's that.

I'm pretty much going with that philosophy right now, but I am keeping acupuncture in the back pocket.  I have had lots of acupuncture in the past and have not found it particularly effective, so I'm not sure.  It's also very costly as you have pointed out.

Let's keep in touch.  I am very glad that we have connected, I would never have imagined that I would find someone in this same spot that I am in, and who also shares my holistic point of view.  I will definitely keep you updated as to what I am doing, what is working and what isn't.  

I truly hope that you keep getting better and better quickly, and me too, and everyone else who has this strange, painful and debilitating disease!  All the best,  Cynthia