Hi Bobby,
Do you have the contact info for Poughkeepsie?
Rich
Call the USA clinical study coordinator. Maureen Reagan at 516-669-6081. Super nice person. Let her know i told you to call her. She is a very sympathetic and understanding woman and a real professional. Not sure if she is a doctor but I bet she could do the implant procedure herself. She is so knowledgeable..
BTW, I am now down to one bathroom visit at night at 3 AM.
God it feels so good to sleep again.
I am down to 8 trips a day. (Yes, i still keep a bathroom diary.)
No more sense of extreme urgency at all.
(Except maybe when I am outside in the cold weather.)
No hesitation to begin urinating.
No more stopping and starting of the flow..
No more feeling like I still have a full bladder after urination.
No incontinence.
No retrograde ejaculation. Everything feels normal. Just a little dark red cloudiness in the semen for a few times from leftover miniscule blood clots tat looked like pepper grains.
.
I guess the symptoms came on so gradually over time I never realized just how annoying or severe they became.
The best part for me was that compared to other methods I see here on this bulletin board the procedure was painless and the 6 day recovery while the implant was in, while uncomfortable and tender, was not really painful except for some buring when urinating, but that lasted maybe 30 seconds at a time. Plus constant stimulation due to the retrieval string in my urethra. Like having a pebble in your shoe or a popcorn hull stuck in your gum.
Since I was "oozey" with some blood clots, healing fluids and small amounts of urine dribbling I recommend shaving or trimming your hair to make cleaning yourself easier and to get Depends Men's Guards, essentially adhesive backed sanitary napkins for men to stick in your briefs. The pain meds they gave me for the burning in my urethra stained my urine a bright orange which stains your clothes so wear old clothes or wear synthetic instead of cotton as it does not hold stains as easily. Also have those waterproof cloth band-aids to tape the coiled tether to your penis after you shower. and dry off.
The removal was not bad. They gave me 10mg of vallium to take. i never really felt it but I guess it relaxed me some. They put plenty of numbing gel into my urethra to make the removal catheter slide in more easily. Just a sudden surprise "ouchie" as the removal catheter passed the prostate, but it was like getting stuck in the arm when they draw blood. It only hurts for a few seconds and then it is over. Just keep breathing and you are fine. The actual removal process took 15 seconds, tops. It took more time ot get undressed and redressed. Some bloody discharge but urination did not burn after it was out.
After it was removed it was sudden relief and it was dramatic. Everything calmed down. Within the hour of leaving the urology office I stopped for lunch and did not have to suddenly run for the rest room. By 4 days after the removal I went to a fundraiser diner and drank wine, beer, soda and coffee and did not have ot run to the men's room at all. Not once. When I got home and used the toilet I realized it had been almost 5 hours since the last bathroom trip.
So make the call and find out if you can be screened. Hope you get picked. Good Luck!
Thanks Bobby for the detailed post. I'm still leaning towards PAE, but things have a habit of changing.
Chuck,
What is your staus?
I had the iTind as part of the clinical trial in New York and it worked great. they are still looking for more patients. Results have lasted 5 years so far with no repeats yet. The device makes three large incisions or slits that do not heal so it urine can keep passing through even as your prostate continues to grow.
It is the least traumatic process and while not comfortable was not painful. Just some burning when i urinated while it was in. Once removed i have no more pain and my symptoms have all but disappeared.
If you are still considering contact Medi-Tate to at least get screened.
Good luck
Thanks Bobby for the reports. I hope it will be approved in the US soon.
Hank
Four months post procedure of the iTind implant (29 Nov, 2016 - 5 Dec, 2016) and the results are still great:
No urgency.
No hesitation.
No leakage.
No dribbling.
No incomplete voiding. Only occasional stop / go, in the AM.
Only 3-4 hours between bathroom trips (was as little as 45 minutes)
One bathroom trip per night (was 4-5 a night)
I am expecting that results would diminish a bit as the prostate continues to grow but quality of life is so much better.
Hi Bobby, Thanks for that report. I have urine retention, no NV. all retention. Did you have some thing like this?
Thanks for your reply.
frank,
Thanks for the update Bobby. I was just thinking about you yesterday wondering how your procedure was holding up. Did you have an enlarged medial lobe?
Hi Bobby, wanted to check for an update. Are things continuing to go well for you? This seems like this might be a great alternative to the more intrusive procedurex, including Urolift which seems like one of the best choices available now.
Hi James, In Europe I can't find a single hospital or urologist that performs the iTind treatment and the medi-tate site hasn't replied to my requests on the website or on Facebook. I am beginning to wonder if the procedure will ever be accepted over here. Maybe I'll have to go with Urolift.
I had it done in Madrid, by Dr. Fernando Gomez Sancha. He speaks excellent English.
I was also referred to Dr. Julian Shah in the U.K.
I am surprised they are not responding, they were very responsive to me when I was looking a year ago.
Unfortunately, it did not have good long term effect on me. I had to get FLA done recently.
Hi from Italy, new in this forum! Went to the urologist yesterday and he propose to implant iTind, it was the first time I heard about it, now thinking about it.
He is one of the metodo pioneer, you can find his 2014 study searching for Prof Porpiglia Francesco, he and his equipe did few hundred implantation in Hospital SAN LUIGI GONZAGA, Orbassano Torino ITALY.
Hey Motoman,
Good to hear that you found an alternative. FLA is one of the newer treatments. When did you have it done, what was the procedure like and how are the results?
My iTind was done late November and results are still holding up pretty good, though stream has weakened a little with an occasional start/stop, especially if I have been holding it in for a while.
No bad side effects, No urgency or hesitancy. Volume is still good, about 200ml as compared to 25ml pre-op. No sense that my bladder isn't empty when I finish. And I can sleep pretty much through the night if i am careful I don't drink after 8 PM. I will go back in November for followup testing and have official measurements.
Best regards,
BobbyT
Hi Bobby, Thanks for your report on ITIND. Was your prostate very enlarged? I was told Uro Lift would not work for me. I am concerned about knowledge of ITind? Did you have urine retention also?
Thanks for your reply Bobby
frank
Hi Frank,
I live near New York City where there are lots of hospitals with top doctors doing research. The FDA is making the manufacturer run clinical trials even though the iTind has been in use for 5 years in Israel and Europe with great success. I was part of the first part of clinical trial as a test subject and I will be monitored for an extended period of time. Initially they were taking subjects who presented with prostates up to 75ml as estimated with a Trans Rectal Ultra Sound which is a painless and harmless test that takes about 4 minutes. I was diagnosed with a 65ml prostate, had urgency and retention such that I was going almost every hour and could only produce 25ml to 50 ml of urine at a time and my bladder always felt full. It was driving me nuts with no sleep. Now I sleep most;y through the night and can produce up to 300ml at a time, especially upon waking. Huge difference.
I have heard that they have extended the study to men with prostates up to 150ml but have not confirmed this as test subjects have limited access to data since they could be part of the blind or control group.
Logically the size as defined by outer dimensions should not make that much of a difference since the remedy is from the inside. If three longitudinal incisions are created and they are deep enough then pressure is relived and urine will pass more easily. This is akin to fracking in an oil well. The more passages that are created the easier the flow.
I deduce that its the internal pressure or density of the tissue that matters most as well as the shape of the organ and its position relative to the bladder neck. If the prostate is curved and angled relative to the bladder neck I would imaging that the remedy is more difficult to achieve than if it were more of a straight line. But I am not an expert, I am just trying to visualize the mechanics and fluid dynamics as if I were trying to fix a mechanical device.
The real advantage is that this method is applied under direct visualization through a camera. This way the surgeon can actually see that the device is placed correctly and well anchored so it does move and damage .sensitive nerves or the seminal vesicle ducts. Also, when the device is placed it does not suddenly spring open and cut the tissue so no damage is done right away so it could be removed and replaced if needed. The action of cutting the incision happens slowly and gently over 5 or 6 days by compressing the tissue, restricting blood flow, and killing off the cells immediately touching the wires of the device through ischemia, necrosis and scarring creating three deep channels for the urine to pass.
It was not painful while it was inside of me though it felt weird at times. No bicycle riding or trampoline jumping and sitting for long period was not always comfortable. A nice recliner or laying down was best. The only discomfort was some burning when I urinated as there was a long suture hanging out of my urethra that would act as a retrieval string during removal and it irritated the to of my penis at times but not a big deal. There was urgency, traces of blood at times and some leakage so i used urine pads And I could shower normally. My wife thought it was ironic that I had a string hanging out of me for five days while I bled into a pad in my underwear while she no longer had to deal with that..
All of the other methods are implemented with MRI or Ultrasound which I think are less accurate and once they cut, burn, microwave, heat ablate or staple there is no going back. What is done is done. No room for error so if the nick a nerve you can suddenly become incontinent or impotent. That was my calculation - iTind presented me with the least amount of risk. If I had to undergo this every 5 years i would be happy to do so. The worst that seems to happen is that for some men, it is not effective. The prostate somehow exerts enough pressure as to close the incisions firmly enough that urine can not pass through the channels. In those cases they can choose a more aggressive method.
But I am not a doctor so be advised. Just a patient who has done a lot of research and discussed this with about 15 medical professionals to see if I could have been missing something to ask. I basically drove the doctor who did the procedure and his staff nuts with questions. But they were always gracious and kind to me even when they could not tell me so that I would not know if I was getting the real thing or not, but the results speak for themselves.
Google iTind and Medi-tate to find their website.
Best,
BobbyT
Hi Bobby, Thanks for all that info. I just had a ultrasound bladder/kidney study, they said my prostate was 74cc volume. Can you tell me ? are cc the same as ml? If they are then my prostate would be 75 ml also
Is this right? I have been doing cic for 10 months now, i cannot do a natural void I have complete retention?
Thanks Bobby,
frank,
Yes. 1 cubic centimeter equals 1 milliliter.
Have you contacted Medi-tate to ask them about the iTind device?
Where do you live, what city and country?
Hi Bobby, I live in USA Illinois. ITind is not FDA approved yet, is it?I believe clinical trials are taken place now, isn't that right?I don't think 74cc prostate is very large. Is this approx 4.9 inch
I'm not sure. Would you know that answer?
Thanks Bobby.
frank,
Hi Bobby I know you were part of a clinical study. I'm curious if you've heard anything about the results if the trial? Also I assume the iTind doesn't reduce the size of the prostate much, correct? So all the procedure does is cut channels in the prostate.
You are correct. I was part of the clinical trial in USA which as far as I know is still going on. I have to go back for my 1 year evaluation in November and perhaps future followups since I am only 62 and plan on being around until i am at least 100. So far so good. *wink*
The FDA is a huge bureaucracy which delays beneficial products from coming onto the market for the sake of implied safety. They probably have killed far more people who were waiting for remedies than they saved from bad products. No drug or medical device maker wants to be sued by hundreds of people so most products are safe. In this case this device have been used in Israel, the EU, Brazil, Hong Kong without much in the way of problems. What is really being tested is duration of efficacy or how long the effects will last. The FDA seems to refuse any evidence accumulated in other countries.
You should contact Medi-Tate and see if you can join the trial. The standard of care for patients in clinical trials is very high. They use the best doctors and select the most appropriate patients so they are very safe. You just have to be willing to trust and accept that you might be in the control group and not receive treatment. That can mess with your head a bit, but I assure that the procedure is not traumatic at all. They plan to get approval for doctors to do the procedure in a typical office setting, not in a full blown OR.
So physics math 101: my understanding is that the volume of an average prostate is about 25 ml or about 3.6 cm in diameter IF IT WERE A SPHERE which it is not. It is a bit oblong. A prostate of 74 ml is about 5.2 cm in diameter.
Now to convert to inches.
25ml = 1.5cubic inches or a sphere with a diameter of 1.42 inches
74ml = 4.5 cubic inches or a sphere with a diameter of 2.05 inches
If you had an MRI or a TRUS, (neither is painful at all), the actual measurements would be on your report which you should be able to get a copy of.
Hope this helps.
BobbyT