Starting at more than 20 mg of Prednisone

I thought I should tell you a little of my journey with PMR because I was not treated with the “traditional” amounts of prednisone. 

When I started on prednisone my arms and shoulders were agony to any touch and very weak.  I had been suffering with undiagnosed leg issues for 10 years.  Problems walking any great distance, doing stairs, getting in and out of vehicles.  Upper body was too painful to sleep in a bed.  I slept in a lounge chair. 

 I’m one of those individual with raised inflammation markers.  My ESR/CRP levels and Prednisone at the start of treatment were:

20 mg    March 11/14                      41/169.9

25 mg    March 14/14                      78/43.1

40 mg    March 18/14                      15/0.4                 

I had some relief at 20 mg, perhaps 30%.  The increase to 25 mg a few days later helped a bit more, but I had a complete melt down with pain on March 18 with increased weakness and pain encompassing my neck and upper back.  I couldn’t lift a single dinner plate into the cupboard.  I couldn’t get in and out of my sleeping chair without help.  Toileting and dressing were agony.  I was ready for a walker, raised toilet seat, and homecare.  Twelve hours after increasing to 40 mg and I was pain free!  Felt better than I had in 10 years! A new woman.  And it happened on my 65th birthday! 

Unfortunately, I was tapered down too far too fast and had a relapse 2 months later.  I had to return to 40 mg, but never returned to the euphoric pain free me.  My lead legs came back and I’m living with them again.  But that’s another story.  I have now tapered to 14 mg and am hopeful that I will be able to continue with gradual drops.  Over the last year of tapering my ESR has ranged between 9 and 12; and CRP 1.3 to 4.6.  Although my ESR reading last week was 6, it’s still in the normal range.

The fact that it took 40 mg to get things under control has worried me on many occasions.  Particularly when Eileen suggests that if things aren’t controlled at 15 or 20 mg, it may not be PMR.  I respect Eileen’s opinions and value her input and recommendations more than any medical practitioner I have dealt with re: PMR.   However, I read all of the forums regularly and based on comments by Eileen and other sage advisors, I believe that several things MAY have dictated my need for higher levels of prednisone.  First, the issues I’ve had with my legs for 10 years was determined to be undiagnosed PMR. So, PMR already had a good hold on me.  Second, the significant and painful involvement of my neck and shoulders may indicate that GCA, without temporal involvement, may have been lurking, and lastly, I was about 40 pounds overweight on diagnosis.  All of these things may have resulted in a need for a 40 mg start.  My symptoms were, and are, so typically PMR. 

Just thought I’d share my experience.  We are all so different.  Of course I have all the wonderful side effects…moon face, thick neck, widow’s hump, sensitive teeth, weight gain, fatigue, fuzzy brain………..

It’s all good though.  I’m enjoying life as best I can.  biggrin

Hi Jean,

What a story! Thank you for sharing. I hope you have a good support group.I hope you continue to heal. This disease has so many unknowns - makes it so challenging. The worry about relapsing or flaring or withdrawal symptoms when we're starting to feel better is always there. Its makes life very challenging.

Where are you? I am in Edmonton Alberta. Selfdiagnosed myself ( my Dr. is not happy about that??) I had the sore arms and shoulders (restricted movement)the stiff and sore hips especially in AM and after sitting..had the blood tests - everything was normal....tried to manage but felt worse and worse (was using anti inflamm turmeric Udo's oil green drinks) ...went back to Dr. she agreed to give me Pred (wanted to start me at 40 - I didn't have a lot of other aches and pains, so I suggested 20 - then she said how about 15??.and I responded within hours to 15 mg. starting dose of pred. I have been on Pred for only 3 weeks. I have my life back. I am thankful for that. 

I do agree - honestly! But what is true remains that when it doesn't respond to a moderate dose of pred with a noticeable improvement then the questions arise - but you did have a noticeable improvement right at the start. There are a few other things that go along with PMR which will also respond to pred but not at those moderate doses and one research group is now considering whether with these apparently "difficult" clinical pictures it is not a possible answer to treat things locally - I have far more relief for certain bits of what were assumed to be part of PMR by having local cortisone injections. And I have said that. There are varying clinical pictures - but for anyone who does have one of these atypical presentations the advice of a rheumatologist is essential  because the majority of people like you will have an add-on. For a lot of these patients, too, adding in methotrexate or azathioprine may help for that reason.

Nothing alters the fact that about a third of people don't respond typically to pred - the response is far lower than expected for a given dose. And long standing PMR isn't easy to manage - tell me about it! 

But I'm so glad it is working now - onwards and downwards.... ;-)

GCA can affect any large or medium sized artery in the body so this problem can go undiagnosed for years until it hits the narrow temple artery and then it is diagnosed. I think this probably happened in my case, as I had PMR symptoms for at least 6 years until I had a major flare up of PMR symptoms with GCA style headaches in the temples, stiff jaw joints, carotid discomfort and pain across the top of the skull and over my forehead towards my eye. ESR and CRP are useful but can be misleading. More important is pulses and also blood pressure in the 4 limbs. Any blockage is undesirable and my legs have very poor blood supply with claudication after walking only slowly for 5 mins. Asprin helps to shift this and reduce inflammation but I find doctors more concerned about the long term effects of prednisolone than about the long term effects of untreated artery inflammation.

Thanks Pam.  I live in a small town in the Northwest Teritories.  In Calgary at my son's home for a couple of days right now.  Heading to Sooke BC tomorrow to spend a month at my other son's home.  The main reason for heading to the Island is to have a seiries of Bowen treatments.  I found a great therapist in VIctoria on a previous visit.  I have some aches and pains that she may be able to help me with.  I have done aquatic exercises for years and continued following PMR diagnosis..  However, due to a strike our community pool has been closed for 4 months.  I'm sure I'm suffering consequences from the lack of exercise.

So happy that 15 mg has worked wonders for you.

Thanks Eileen.  Your comments continue to worry me.  All I can do right now is continue and hope for the best.  You may not recall, but I am under the care of a Nurse Practitioner.  Rheumatologists don't deal with PMR in the Territories.  I was diagnosed and treated through consultation with an Internest.  It was the Internist that bumped me from 25 to 40 mg.  And it was the Internist who pushed the rapid reduction that lead to the relapse.  It was only through your postings and direct advice that I was able to get further diagnostic tests and scans done tht at least ruled out rheumatoid arthritis.  I'm pretty much managing my own treatment now.

You will see from my reply to Pam that I have become a fan of Bowen.  

Eileen. I value your advise so if you can help me decide what to do I would appreciate it. I was diagnosed with PMR 3 weeks ago by my family doctor he put me on prentizone 40 mg for just a few days. Can't remember if it was 3 or 5 days. The same day I started it all the stiffness and soreness disappeared within 3 hours. Immediately after being off it everything was back. As I remember he didn't taper me off but I just had it for I think 3days. After a week of more suffering I went back to doctor and he gave me 5 mg for one week then to cut down to 2-1/ 2 mg that didn't work so I have increased by myself to 10 then to 12-1/2 and I am still in pain by morning. My doctor now wants me on 40 mg for a week then tapering 10 mgs weekly. I would like to see how I would do on 15mg for a while. What are your thoughts? Until this hit me I have always been healthy and taking no meds. I am 76. Barb

He obviously has no idea at all how to manage PMR. I suggest you take him a copy of the Bristol paper (under that heading in the first post in this link

https://patient.info/forums/discuss/pmr-gca-website-addresses-and-resources-35316

It is aimed at GPs to assist them in diagnosing and managing PMR without recourse to a rheumaotlogist. If your GP won't cooperate - find another.

PMR is a chronic disease process and cannot be managed using acute therapies. If they don't know - why can't they google PMR and management and they will find plenty of sources to help them. In the absence of them managing to do that - here are the appropriate references. 

40mg is not generally needed and the lower starting doses do reduce the side-effects dramatically - which is the whole reasoning behind the lower starting dose. 

Eileen, I'm afraid we're going back in history.  It's been a year since I saw the Internist and never intend seeing him again.  I gave this paper to my Nurse Practitioner back then and he basically said that I was getting to know more about PMR than anyone.  He has continued to support my self management.  Although he did disappoint me recently in suggesting that I move more quickly with the taper.    However, I think he's just covering his butt because the current philosopy among his peers is to get patients off prednisone before they crumble to the side effects.

 

Aren't we just! But you have done so well on your self management! 

I really don't care what their current philosophy is - they don't have to live with the results of stopping pred too quickly do they.

Twenty-odd years ago my husband was given chemotherapy - it made him deaf. He had radiotherapy - that leaves him at risk of cardiac problems, blah blah. He is still alive and has had a pretty good QOL. I'm on pred - have a good QOL now I have it sorted out. If, in 15 years time, I fall and break a hip because of osteoporosis I'll accept it - but in the meantime I'll have been able to enjoy the stolen years we have together. Without pred it would be a bit grim!

You are so right Eileen.  A lifelong friend recently had minor surgery for breast cancer.  The lump was ever so small, but had spread to the lymph system.  The good news has been that it's hormonal breast cancer, which can be treated with radiation and medication.  Bone and CT scans have shown it hasn't spread.  The bad news is that the hormone blocker she will be on for the next year has potentially horrendous side effects, including cancer of the womb!  That will be followed by another year on another hormone related drug.  We do what we have to do.  

I started at 50mg and dropped 5mg every two weeks until I got to 20mg.

At this stage I dropped 2.5mg. I'm now down to 15mg, and the 2.5mg drops are too much so I've (literally) just started 1mg drops. I'll see how it goes.

While I respect my Drs views I am of the opinion that I'm the only one that knows how I feel and what dose is working.

Thank you for your info. I agree that we can tell if the dose is right or wrong by the symptoms we feel if any.

Hi Jean

i live in Victoria and would really appreciate knowing the name of the therapist you see here!

i have had a couple times when I wanted to see someone for specific aches with my PMR but just couldn't make up my mind who to see. 

If if you aren't comfortable putting this info on the forum, please "personal message" me. Thanks so much.

Just sent you a PM with the contact info.

Hi Mrs CJ,

I am going to visit my son and family ( and looks like we'll be moving to Victoria in a couple years!) in Victoria. I actually have a friend in Calgary (naturopath) who does Bowen...I have had 1 or 2 treatments before my PMR.

Who is the practitioner in Victoria.

Maybe we could get together when I go to Victoria? Pam

 

I will send you a PM