A few of us have been discussing ways to make our bones stronger without resorting to bisphosphonates. This seems like a good place to carry on the conversation.
The conversation started here:
https://patient.info/forums/discuss/bonviva-ibandronic-acid-506991?page=0&order=Oldest#2093953
Read only the original post re osteoporosis as the thread was very long.
I was diagnosed with osteopinia in the past. Took Fosomax in my 50's and my bones improved to those"of a 30 year old". I stopped taking it at that point as I had read of complications. Years later my bones are getting weaker again, but apparently not to the point of requiring Fosomax again. (am now 68). I take vitamins including D and calcium with magnesium. From everything I have read the body absorbs vitamins and minerals far better via food than supplements. There are easily available lists of foods to eat. Other than that it's exercise and working with weights that are recommended. I've slacked off with weights. I do Qi Gong, treadmill if not outdoors walking and swimming for 45 minutes when it's warm enough, gardening. I find it difficult to be disciplined re exercise no matter how good it is for you, unfortunately.
Hi All
As a follow-on to the discussion about zinc supplements, copper is the other supplement that goes with zinc. It seems that if you take one of these, you should also take the other. Both assist in the formation of the collagen upon which the calcium will be depositied. I went searching this morning and found 2mg Chelated Copper which seems to be satisfactory so I'll add that to my ever growing list. Pick me up and shake me and I'll rattle. Must check on that when I'm doing the jumps which it is time to do now.
Best regards
Colin
But maybe you're getting enough copper in your diet already? I think it is in lots of foods, and you don't want to get too much.
The thread was getting long! That's why we've moved here. I know that Vitamin K2 is really important for proper absorption of Calcium. It's the vitamin which makes sure Calcium goes into the bones and isn't depostied where it's not wanted (e.g. blood vessels, organs). Not K1 which we can get from our leafy greens. Most of us are now deficient in K2 because of changes to the way animals are raised so we need to take a supplement, unless we can eat foods from grass-fed animals (meat, dairy, eggs).
Regarding the Fosamax, I think it's no longer recommended that people with osteopenia be given bisphosphonates, although some medics may still prescribe them. I know what you mean about the exercise. I've just taken up Nordic walking, and at first I thought I'd be too embarrassed to use the poles in public, but it turns out I'm a bit of a natural for using them, so it's okay - but it is tiring!
It's actually not easy to find out what your level is. I don't think that my GP would sanction tests like that so I need to find an alternative way of finding out. There are suggestions on the search sites so I'll have a trawl amongst them and see if I can come up with something useful.
I think it's scientifically proven these minerals and vitamins are necessary for bone formation, but has it been proven that taking them in supplement form actually works? That's always my issue. Re the Fosomax that was nearly 20 years ago. I think Boniva is the name I hear mentioned nowadays. After my experience with Fosomoax I wouldtake only take whatever was prescribed long enough to see positive changes. I had decided to take less of the Fosomax once I got positive results, but when my doctor heard that she was pretty annoyed and said there were no studies showing that a smaller amount would do anything so I just stopped taking it altogether. No problems ensued. All this maintenance gets to be a bit much after a while. No wonder people used to die at a younger age (we've added ten years since 1950), but it does require some effort and a bit of hypochondria!
Hi All
Just been checking what vitamins/supplements I'm taking and don't think copper is in any of them interestingly. As I'm trying to eat more healthily, hopefully I will ingest copper in my diet. xx
Colin,
Be interesting if you can find out a way. I mean we're probably all taking stuff in the hope that it helps, and hoping nothing fights with anything else we're taking. Really very much a question of balance.
The magnesium I take does include B vitamins which are obviously important and folic acid.
I've also started taking coconut oil....tho that is more for my general health and wellbeing as it is apparently brilliant at fighting anti viral or infections 
Am mixing it with warm orange juice and using it to cook with more too.
Take care everyone
kind regards
Carrie
Hi Beverly
Yes I think you are right, it does make sense and seems to be scientifically proven. I am staying away from any of the AA Bisphosphonates; Fosamax, Binosto, Fosavance all under same heading as AA. Boniva appears to be Ibandronate rather than Alendronate but maybe it is same heading I'd have to check.
And you are so right, it DOES take effort, time and a bit of hypochondria! But the medics do seem to be lead by drug companies in my mind...or perhaps I am just to untrusting!
Take care
kind regards, Carrie
BTW, not forgotten the calcium info just not found it yet!!
xx
Would 'Vigilant" do?
Perfect! Thanks! xx
Dear Colin, Beverley, Jean and Eileen,
defo agree with you what you said....good luck Beveley We have indeed become a small support group which may grow....if it hadn't been for Jean, Coln and Eileen, I would be struggling far more
Sorry, tired tonight, but will try and message more in next few days
Kind Regards, Carrie
Hi Anhaga - Jean
I came across another lady with OP earlier today, in the conversation 'any-one-had-a-dexa-scan-that-showed-improvement-in-bone' Her name is Jill0890 and I left the link to the new page with her and she's going to have a look.
Well I gather that she posted but included some commercial names and the mods deleted her post. I've advised her and hopefully she will try again.
Regards
Colin
I'm going to look at the content of my osteoporosis journey and see if I can develop a short version (with no bibliography of course) which I'll post publicly.
Hi Carrie,
Just trawling around a bit and thought that I would send greetings and hope that were a little recovered.
I sent a post to Eileen on the other site and also hopefully assisted a lady called Jill by pointing her in this direction.
Had a good gym day and upped the weight level as I commented previously and that will stay for several weeks. Got some more kiwifruit and have gotten used to it and actually like it. All the info that I had on them got wiped out with the hard disk so need to re-read some stuff. I'll get it back again shortly.
Even got some more gardening and wood chopping dome as well as progressing the story further.
The cat is happy because I just fed her. She'll be wanting fussing soon!
I'm burbling again while avoiding doing some more at the things that must be done.
I understand your tiredness and just ask that you don't struggle with it too much, that will sap your strength and you may need it.
We'll be thinking of you,
do take care.
Kindest Regards
Colin
I was really impressed with your description of your journey and I like the idea that if you can develop as you say, you could publish your story as I intend to publish mine which is progressing nicely.
I now have several books which I use for reference but will not generally publish any of the titles but they will be available in a private post..
Best of luck with your development
My Osteoporosis Journey: Background – “high risk” small-boned Caucasian female over 65, taking prednisone for polymyalgia rheumatica since June 2015, suffered broken leg (tibial plateau) when leg was severely twisted when I walked on ice February 2014. My T-score I is -2.0 but I am in the high risk category. When starting prednisone I was told that bone thinning was an effect of prednisone so I took my calcium and Vitamin D supplements, bought a pedometer and started walking more. It was at my request that I finally had a scan in September where the osteopenia was diagnosed. Even when I had the broken leg no one suggested a scan would be a good idea. All I knew was that the bone healed rapidly and well, I had not needed surgery.
After the diagnosis my GP recommended medication but by then I had started hearing about the potential for horrific side effects, so turned her down and started serious research. I started by talking to my friends. Two of them had successfully moved from osteoporosis range into osteopenia through non-medical means. One remains faithful to her regimen and continues to improve, the other has slacked off and become osteoporotic again. Suggestions from the more dedicated person included Nordic walking and parkour but she does not have polymyalgia (PMR). She also has taken various supplements under the advice of a herbalist. I am not ruling out her methods but am not following in her path, although I may take up Nordic walking sometime in the future. I tell you about her because her experience is what gives me real hope that non-pharmaceautical methods work. A sister-in-law was taking Fosamax but had to discontinue because of side effects (I don’t know what the side effects were).
I have done a lot of reading. You'll find several good sites on the internet but if they are heavily promoting certain products it is a good idea to balance their advice with what you read elsewhere. I am convinced that the following regimen is the best for me, and I expect to be adding to this, and modifying things, as I continue to learn more:
Exercise: I have a weighted walking vest which allows me to gradually add small amounts of weight. This is to challenge the skeleton to lay down more bone. I am learning Tai Chi which is not only excellent for improving balance (helps to avoid those bone-breaking falls) but has been shown to improve bone density. I use my pedometer to make sure I get 10,000 steps a day. At present this includes all my daily activity, not just my walks. I may increase this in the future. I also carry on with long-standing physio exercises for osteoarthritis and practice a bit of yoga. Have recently started doing nordic walking.
Diet - well balanced, with the following supplements:
Calcium
Vitamin D3
Vitamin K2 (K2-4 and/orK2-7, K2-7 is preferred) Please note that Vitamin K2 (not K1) is nearly absent from modern diets, and is the vitamin that guides calcium into our bones rather than letting it collect in our organs or inside our blood vessels. Unless you have access to grass fed cattle and their products, and free range hens eggs (not grain fed) you will almost certainly need to supplement this vitamin.
Sources of Vitamin A I've read conflicting advice about whether retinol or beta carotene is better, and have decided that natural sources (food, or maybe cod liver oil) are safer choices than taking a chance with the latest fad in supplements.
You should have enough vitamin E in your regular diet, otherwise make sure you get a mixed tocopherol version
Magnesium
Cod liver oil for A and D content.
The reading I have done includes websites and books. As I indicated above, always read with a critical eye and take the best ideas from everywhere. I don’t think anyone has all the answers, and also we are each different, will have varying risk factors and so forth. But I hope my experience gives you some ideas, and also some ammunition as you withstand the medical profession’s strangely strong idea that we must take their dangerous medicines!
I'll private message bibliography to anyone who asks.