Hi I've been hypothyroid for about 11 years. I've felt horrific recently and been told I have an adrenal issue and my thyroid level and meds are fine. Whilst I appreciate I may Also have adrenal issues, I'm not convinced my thyroid levels are at an optimal level. I've also been told I have a conversion issue from t4 to t3 so I'm taking ndt. My results are
T4 14.6
T3 4.9
Any comments on the results would be really helpful thank you
Hi Caz, check your ranges. Make sure your numbers are in the high end of normal ranges or a tad above, as this is where a lot of people do best on the meds.
It’s likely that the recent cold weather is wreaking havoc with your system. I know I’ve had to change things up with the icy cold weather recently. Many people find they need to increase their meds during the winter months and lower them as the weather warms up. I can tell you that thyroid management is much easier in a warm climate.
So, your thyroid does not function independently of the rest of your body and is in fact intimately linked to many functions and reacts to body functions to adjust your energy levels. More on this in a bit...
Keep in mind that levothyroxin is T4 only. So most people wind up with relatively high T4 and lower T3, though still in range. You tend to get T4 at the top end of the range and T3 at the low end with levothyroxin. There is a natural normal ratio in humans of T4/T3. Since the meds, levothyroxin, are T4 only, even if you’re converting well, your ratios will be low in T3. The normal human ratio is 14:1 T4/T3.
There is now a ton of research on ratios, so feel free to search studies as they’ve found various syndromes within thyroid disease to have various abnormal ratios.
Your body depends on the thyroid, gut and liver to convert to T3. Since meds bypass your thyroid, your levels will automatically be lower in T3.
You’ll likely do better with NDT if you’re low in T3. NDTs are from pigs and have a way higher ratio of T3/T4 than human. So you’ll get higher than normal T3/T4 ratios on the NDT. This also can throw your system off. However, NDT is closer in molecular structure to human thyroxin, since it is natural, which a more important reason to go with NDT. Either way, you’ll get a wonky T3/T4 ratio when you take meds because none match the natural human ratios: Levo results in too low T3, NDT is too high. The higher the dose, the farther you get from normal ratios, the more wonky your system becomes... and this can really mess with your adrenals. So it’s all circular.
Currently, the closest thyroxin to human T3/T4 ratios is bovine. However, there is no prescription natural bovine. It is available as a supplement called ThyroGold. There are other non prescription bovines available, but I’ve found the ThyroGold to be very good. You can order it online. It is effective for all levels if thyroid treatment, as my mother uses it due to thyroidectomy and is doing far better on the ThyroGold than anything else.
This ratio is super important, as T3 is the fast acting, short lived thyroxin that your body uses as needed fir bursts of energy. If you do not have enough T3, your adrenals must compensate and provide short bursts of energy. This leads to adrenal burnout. Though, many thyroid patients already have adrenal burnout before starting thyroid medication. Oddly, while the instructions for all thyroid meds dictate that patients should be tested and treated for adrenal disease prior to taking thyroid medications, no adrenal testing is provided in typical hospital settings.
In the end, if you have thyroid disease, you most likely have an adrenal problem. There’s a hormone book that I’ve found helpful that offers various levels of treatment options for endocrine problems. I’ve found this to be extremely helpful. The herbs work very well to rebalance things!
Many patients experience gut and liver problems due to thyroid disease (the levothyroxin is known to worsen gut and liver problems). I recently discovered that pancreatitis also results in a myriad of gut issues (and is heavily linked to liver and gallbladder function). With the cold weather, my system was super wonky as my thyroid levels were very low, and I could hardly eat anything. After some research, I tried a pancreatitis regimen, and found it to be extremely helpful. Hence, I suspect that both hypothyroid disease and levothyroxin cause pancreatitis stemming from low body temps and liver/gallbladder sluggishness. Once I got the pancreatitis somewhat controlled, it was a lot easier to tell what my thyroid symptoms were doing and adjust my thyroid regimen.
So yup, your system is wonky because of the cold. Yup, the meds can contribute to the wonkiness, and can make things worse, and it’s hard to tell what’s what, and your whole body is effected! Where to start!?
Very informative and interesting post Catherine. you have certainly done your home work. The medical profession don't seem to take this illness seriously enough in my opinion - as long as you fit into a range of numbers everything must be ok-type mentality.
However, do you take ThyroGold with the Levo or instead of?
HI Barbie, thanks. I take essential amino acid complex and phenylalanine. I have advanced thyroid disease, but have not had my thyroud removed.
My mother has had her thyroid removed and has been doing wonderfully on ThyroGold along with the essential amino acids. It is not necessary to take prescription medication if you take ThyroGold.
Hi Barnie, sorry for the bad autocorrect of Barbie. Funny thing for autocorrect to do.
Just a comment or idea to add... I tried NDT and initially felt great but then terrible soon after.
Now I take Levothyroxine/Liothyronine combo (over the past 4 years I believe). This is a custom mix I have made specifically for me at a local pharmacy. The second one (liothyronine) provides extra T3. My TSH, free T4, and free T3 are all tested every time for my dosage to be adjusted as needed. I am doing and feeling much better. Another note, my current provider (I did fire my original endocrinologist), noted initially my T3 level was fine in the morning (after taking my meds) but was dropping too low in the afternoon. That is when my energy would crash.
I mention these as a few basic ideas to consider when problem-solving for yourself. Find a provider willing to dig! It is totally worth it! Find what works best for you and your body. Best wishes!
You seem to know your stuff when it comes to Thyroid My family on mothers side all have low thyroid yet my grandpa had graves disease I am no exception My 27 yr old daughter found out she had thyroid cancer 9 months ago She right away had thyroid out at UCLA shes on meds and had radiation treatment The radiation didn't do enough after looking at the pet scan results The cancer has spread to her chest cavity / lung So her Docs are consulting with Stanford and Berkeley I worry because I have a enlarged thyroid and T 4s are always low Would this goldenthyroid help T4sMy doctor said Oh no big your fine I cant lose weight and way too tired everyday I'm now frightetend that Maybe my daughter got the cancer gene handed from me and I just have horrible doctor Can you explain what low T4s cause Doctor wont and internet has a ton of different answers Thank you for your time
My daughter is MD and said in her opinion Drs have gotten lazy and only worry about what insurance will cover It's become a sad state of affairs
Hello Alley, I’ve read enough on this site to make me decide that thyroidectomy is the absolute hast resort. I’m not sure I would consider radiation and thyroidectomy even if I were diagnosed with cancer.
So that’s my perspective after reading thousands of posts here, even though I have thyroid disease extensively on both sides of my family.
With thyroid disease, you have autoimmune disease. Thyroxin is basically a type of hormone replacement therapy. It keeps your body from degrading when you have thyroid disease. Thyroxin replacement will help every function of the body since hypothyroid disease will basically lead to degradation of every body function. However, thyroxin replacement DOES NOT CURE THYROID DISEASE. Thyrogold is a form of thyroxin replacement, that is natural, and has far fewer side effects and risks than you get with levothyroxin (synthetic thyroxin). If you read enough, you find that levothyroxin can actually worsen thyroid disease and autoimmune disease, and can cause several types of cancer, including thyroid cancer. There are many studies that show this, manufacturers even admit that Levo can worsen thyroid disease and cause autoimmune disease.
While taking levothyroxin, my thyroid cyst grew dramatically in size. My immune system was shot, bones were brittle, entire hormone system and adrenals were exhausted. I’m much better without the Levo, though I still struggle with thyroid disease.
Since everything western medicine does seems to lead to a worsened immune condition, I would investigate a more holistic and natural approach. Chemo and radiation dessimate the immune system, further adding to the load on the immune system. Keep in mind, immune disorder is at the core of thyroid disease in most cases. Treat the immune system, you treat the thyroid disease.
You’re in California? There is a center in San Diego that does chemical detoxing in-house. I’d recommend that as a first step towards a holistic approach. It’s the best option for people who’ve never delved into detoxing because they help you along every step of the way. It’s quite affordable for what they offer.
I’d also recommend a hormone book that offers non prescription methods to rebalance hormones, as with hypothyroid disease, the entire hormone system is out of whack. Proper hormone levels are vital for immune system function.
I also recommend acupuncture and TCM with herbal remedies.
If you like, I can private message you with some resources, both locally and online.
To me, cancer patients don’t scary. What’s scary is the consequences of treatments of chemo and radiation. Cancer is just some confused cells that need to be redirected. Getting the immune system healthy is the first step.
Wonder if your T4 is a bit near the low level. it is in the "normal" range but sometimes it could mean borderline. cant comment on T3 dont have any figures.. I do know that borderline figures can be dubious. Just my opinion
Hi Catherine thanks so much for the info. I currently take bovine ndt as I was recommended by someone on this forum and I had my suspicions that I needed to be at the higher end of the scales. They didn't give me ranges but have a feeling upper end of t4 is 22 and the 7.5. I didn't realise the winter months affected how much you need to take, that's definitely good to know. Thanks so much
I was thinking this too! I just really don't feel good at all. Like walking from one side of the room to the other is so much effort, brain fog etc.
Hi jez, I felt really great on ndt until my Dr told me to reduce the dose. Biggest regret to date!! I've been on the combo you suggested previously but it didn't really make any difference, maybe because they are both synthetic meds?
well this what happened to me. I was hypo for 25 years. Went to Private Dr and range in private hosp. uses slightly different figures and i was diagnosed as hyperthyroid (just ). I immediately went to my NHS Dr who arranged a test. which came back "normal ". I said that i was not feeling right so he immediately dropped my thyroxine from 125mcg to 100. This all happened recently and so far i feel fine. On both ranges I was on the Lower end for T4. this "borderline" reading can be a problem, so i think Always get a reading from another source. The private hospital ( which are all over UK I think ) which i cant name here has a system whereby you can see a private GP ( you can opt for info not going to your own Dr if you wish ) who will send you for the test which will be cheaper than going to a consultant. Their ranges appear to be slightly different sometimes. Just thought that might be of help or at least interest
Hi yes I've seen someone private who previously said my t3 was below the ranges when nhs had previously said it was normal. But they also used different ranges etc when done privately. It's so bizarre! I think the same is happening again so may increase my meds.
Good chance. Just an observation on my part. Most endocrinologists adjust based on symptomatic or not. They tend to adjust TSH to 1.0 or even lower. If my TSH is 2.5 I feel like death but most pups would consider that normal. I think it’s misleading for those that don’t specialize. They’re just matching ranges.
Thank you so much for the information It's way more than I ever got from a doctor I definentley need to read up on the hormones I have no uterus or right ovarey However when they run my blood I 'm apparently pregnant or a man I have been so distracted I have not taken proper care of myself I'm really interested in this place in San Diego Perhaps they can get me off the 4 Psyc meds that I hate being on In house is what I have been looking for I do ache for daughter I am really scared The radiation makes her so sick But she's 27 I can only give advice Thank you again You were so much help It means alot