UK/US Vit D Facts

General health and lifestyle
1

Our Australian friend made these new comments on Vit D3.

The US uses a different measurement scale.

In the US the measure is ng/ml ie nanograms per millilitre.

In the UK and most other countries is nmol/Litre.

The reason for the difference is that nmol/Litre is a "proper" chemical measure for labs in that it takes into account the molecular weight the molecule "25 hydroxy vitaminD"

As pointed out the conversion factor is approx 2.5

So 50nmol/L = 20ng/ml

AS you say UK and many other countries deem 50nmol/L to be sufficient. They do this for two reasons:

1. the "statistical normal level" of serum vitaminD is around 50nmol/L

2. the IOM (US:institute of medicine) says it is 20ng/ml (50nmol/L)

Is this right or is it wrong? what is an "optimal" level for health and disease prevention.

We know that Africans who are without upper body clothing average out at about 45ng/ml (112nmol/L)

We know that there are no known adverse events up to dosage of 20,000iu

We know that 5000iu daily pushes most peoples levels up to about 40ng/ml (100nmol/L)

We know that to get that from sun exposure would require around 20mins full body exposure in summer sun daily. Or around 30mins of upper body exposure daily.

These figures tell us that the average person gets no where near this sort of dosage (from the sun). Should they? History says that people get less sun exposure because of three things:

occupation

cold

fear (of getting cancer or wrinkled skin)

So we can assume that the "statistically normal" person is getting too little vitamin D from the sun. So the IOM is wrong, UK is wrong.

In addtion when a "normal" survey is done measuring people's vitamin D level it will include some people with disease that is not disclosed or even diagnosed. This will lower the average for the following resons:

We know that when a person has an infection or an inflammatory disease or cancer their levels decrease. No one knows why but it could be that it is being converted to the active form far faster to help deal with the disease. We do not measure the active form, we measure the precursor floating around in the blood.

So if you have an inflammatory based illness then the IOM 's figure does not apply at all.

Both the Endocrinological Society and the Vitamin D council recommend 4000iu to 5000iu respectively.

Again to get this sort of dosage from the sun just ain't gonna happen in the average person. So supplementation is advisable for EVERYONE and definitely for the sick.

2

The rest of "his" information:

I don't know why the UK sticks to the none sense figure of 50nmol/L. In New Zealand, which is exposed to higher levels of UV than most other countries (because of the ozone hole) the main reason is cancer avoidance. However this does not explain their reluctance to advise supplementation, in fact they oppose supplementation by limiting the purchase or importation of vitamin D to 1000iu doses. They appear to be stubborn in this regard.

It is known that long and high exposure to UV causes carcinomas. But what is too long and what is too high?

Is 20 minutes daily too long? No! Is 30mins too long, could be if you have no tan at all and your vitamin D levels are low and you have a white skin.

It has never been proven that melanoma is caused by excessive UV. It is more complicated than simple exposure. Melanoma could well be partly caused by low vitamin D levels. The fear of getting cancer from the sun is present because:

We have got into a very bad habit of no-sun for most of the time followed by too much rarely (people overdose in the sun because of occupational activity (take the kids to the beach on holidays and overdo it with little or no exposure between times).

So the simplest answer is to supplement, at least over the winter months and some countries that means 6 months to 8 months of the year than when the sun is around get 20-30 mins sensible exposure on upper body (covered face) daily. Even that regime of sun exposure is not easy to do.

3

That's very good to know!!!  Thanks!  I take it, but often forget, so I will be more careful to take it regularly.

4

Thanks for this important post.  I supplement with 6,000 iu's daily and sunbathed for 20-30 min. several times/wk this summer, yet my most recent test came back only at 66 nm/ml.  I am a white female (128lbs, 5'7"wink.  I have several autoimmune disorders so I actually would like my levels higher--75-80 nm/ml would be preferable, I believe, when one has cancer or autoimmune disorders.  I think that vitamin D may be the most important supplement that we take!  There is much good research that refutes the hysteria that says that vitamin D is readily toxic, and the opposite is actually more supported by research--that not having sufficient vitamin D is very dangerous in many ways to our health.  I like the "vitamin D counsel" for information on this topic.  Thanks again for this post!  --Suzanne

5

You do know latest research tells us that K2 is needed for best D absorption. And D3 is preferred over D2...

I know this one, I had my levels at 80 pre hip replacement and my level dropped to 40, 40pt drop....I knew this could happen and it did. So now I work to get my levels up again...Most days I take 4K iu's some days 8K iu's...and I do take K2.

WHen I think of ALL the people who are not tested and not treated for this dreaded deficiency. It's maddening.

6

Right! It is very concerning how little most people know about vitamin D, and when authorities conspire to be poorly informed it's unforgivable!  I had my son's pediatrician tell me that she didn't believe all the stories being told of what vitamin D could help (I had told her that we had very few respiratory infections and no asthma since adding vitamin D)--and she was openly hostile toward us about adding vitamin D!  I'm glad that I chose to do my own research and not depend on my son's doctor!!!

Yes, I know that there is an important relationship between K2, D3, magnesium, and calcium--all are necessary to lay down bone where it's supposed to go (and not in the blood vessels), for example.  I got some k2 supplements, but I don't do well with soy and felt bad when I took it once, so I'm hoping that the grass-fed ghee that I eat has enough to help me without the supplement.  What do you do? 

I take 6,000 iu's each day of D3 and now I am adding an extra 5,000 cap on a few extra days a week because I want my levels a little higher than 66.   I will retest in a few months.  I have several autoimmune disorders (celiac, hashimotos now in remission, LS, etc., as well as predictive autoantibodies for CREST syndrome--which I do not want to manifest.  Actually, just read research suggesting that those with the lowest D levels are the most likely to manifest that disorder.  Had some Lupus (anti-Smith) antibodies that went away this last blood test two weeks ago--yay!  Vitamin D is so helpful!

7

Hi again, I don't know about ghee instead of K2, the K2 (MK-7) I take is free of soy, wheat , eggs, peanuts etc...

Don't know the CREST syndrome and I've dealt with Hashi and think I'm pretty good with the thyroid....long story on that issue, thanks to convenitonal MD....you are preaching to the choir....

MD's have a place but prevention-wise, leave much to be desired...I see only an integrative MD here in santa monica, ca

I'm quite healthy, thanks to my supplements, but a nasty mess since hip replacement 4 yrs ago...long crazy saga there....

Grape seed extract has been my biggest salvation and taking it 19 yrs now. And aging is no fun but it's inevitable..talk to you later. J

8

That's very helpful info regarding vit. D   I have been taking, on advise of my nature path, regular vit D.  

9

Interestingly enough - I have been treated for 'brown spots' on my body and was told that these could turn into cancer and that it's caused by overexposure to sun.  Guess what -  I did not show this doctor the spots on skin that never has seen sunlight at all.  What to think?

10

As we age, we collect those things we did not ask for.  Aging is not for sissies, someone said.  I start to believe that.  Hold on to courage everybody.  And may the supplements allow us to age gracefully.

11

I was a sunworshipper all my life until about 53 or so when I could not tolerate the sun anymore...so I came in from the sun.....and I can only say all those years in the sun kept my D levels good.... then the levels started to drop and depression was settling in, turned out to be HypoT and very low Vit D.

Sun is the happy vitamin no doubt. But if we can't be in the sun anymore, Vit D3 and K2 are the next best things.

I have freckles but not huge brown spots but some, my mom had a lot as she aged, she was NEVER in the sun....so I'm sure her D was in the tank most of her life....

Grape Seed Extract does HELP to fade the brown spots....considering all the years in the sun my skin is pretty good. 19 yrs of grape seed extract has been a great helper. Talk later...off to bed.. Sleep is my healer.

12

What do you use the grape seed extract for?  I've bought some in the past but haven't used consistently--curious what you think.  

Regarding the K2 supplement--my understanding is that the supplements usually are derived from natto (soy)(MK-7)--though maybe they are so concentrated or processed as to not be a problem to most people who are sensitive to soy.  If I'm remembering correctly, ghee from pastured cows (or butter or meat) contains MK-4 (who have already done the conversion for us from plant sources of K).  There's some discussion online about the relative benefits of both types of K2.  I think that we're still trying to learn more about it.  I read a book about it last year that was pretty interesting and have followed some of the health bloggers as they look into this newly discovered vitamin.  I still have a lot to learn about it all. 

So sorry to hear about the mess up with your hip replacement and curious too about the long story with the thyroid.  

I live pretty close by in Eugene, OR.  

Take care!  --Suzanne

13

Suzanne if you go to the website got mag org and look for testing is key to hormone-D there is some information and a video that explains how to take it correctly or who should take it. It is also suggested to take fermented cod liver oil instead of D3.

14

Again, I think that the medical world does not know all about the effects of the sun.  Of course we don't have to let ourselves burn to a crisp either of course.  Sun, however, is important for our well being.  Thanks Joy for bringing this to the forefront.

15

Back in 1995 I attended a lecture on Pycnogenol as it was arriving in the US from France...we were told by the panel that it MAY prevent cancer....that was music to my ears so I got on it and the first t hing to leave my body was allergy and sinus issues, that took a couple weeks thinking back...I was in shock and suprise....I had struggled with allergies all my life prior, I was 57 when I got on Pycnogenol....then after a year I found grape seed ex and now I combine them, taking mostly grape seed extract now for 19 yrs..... I'm banking on it for the prevent cancer comment..

Cancer research hospitals now use both of these in their research....city of hope, mayo, and more.

I hear you about the soy, but some things I have to ignore,,,,can't control it all. I take natto for elevated fibrinogen levels.....

See my integrative MD next week for my annual and we will do some new labs on some of the lipid issues....

My dear friend from santa monica moved to portland a few years ago for the "trees" and she has struggled up there but happy about the NO FLUORIDE in Portland. Santa monica sold out in 2008 to the fluoride pigs...she and I were activist buddies....pig is a gentle word for the "F" pushers....a great fraud upon the people... I'll talk about the thyroid later....gotta eat some breakfast soup I make.

16

I'll look into some of the recommendations you made--thanks for the tips. Not familiar with Pycnogenol but will look it up since it sounds like it's been helpful to you.  

Yes, I'm glad for no flouride in the water and no sales tax.  Not so keen on all the rain, though it's been beautiful for weeks until today.

I just did all of that new lipid testing.  Now just have to figure out what it all means!  

17

People who are significantly overweight tend to have very low vitamin d levels. Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin and it's thought some vitamin D gets used up in fat cells. This new paper explains how that happens "Effects of 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 on cathelicidin production and antibacterial function of human oral keratinocytes"

The point we all should be aware of is that below 100nmol/l the amounts of vitamin D3 in tissue cells is not measurable only when 215(OH)D get above 100nmol/l are measurable and at 50ng/ml 125nmol/l they are significant in nearly everyone.

Not surprisingly we find that Vitamin D3 is best able to resolve inflammation when 25(OH)D is 50ng/ml 125nmol/l or above.

We should also point out that the process of conversion of vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) > CALCIDIOL(circulating form) >CALCITRIOL(active hormonal form) requires the presence of magnesium. Most people don't get the RDA for magnesium and that, like the RDA for Vitamin D is set too low. The omage 3 DHA also helps resolve inflammation so making sure you are getting sufficient Vitamin d (35 iu per pound weight) adequate magnesium and OMEGA 3 DHA should help any condition involving chronic inflammation.

The graph below plots Vitamin D3 in tissue at different 25(OH)D levels. as Joy has said x by 2.5 to change ng/ml to nmol/l

18

Suzanne, On my lipid panel tests, I worked on figuring out what I needed to get on to lower the results that needed some help.... Like homocysteine, fibrinogen, some of the LDL's.....

My homocysteine has been going up in recent years and I know NOW it's because I slacked off on Omega 3's....so I'm faithful for the last year.... And will continue to be faithful....

My integrative MD believes homeocysteine is more critical than the cholesterol scare (myth)..... for heart health....plus a good book The Heart Revolution was an eye opener on this.

19

While fermented cod liver oil is very good and contains a useful amount of vitamin A it's not necessarily an adequate source of vitamin D3.

1 tsp FCLO contains roughly 10,000 IUs vitamin A and 1,000-2,000 IUs vitamin D

While that is an adequate amount of Vit A it isn't an adequate amount of vitamin D3. Most people in UK require in the region of 35iu vit d daily per 1lb weight. So 2000iu is about enough for a kid 57lbs (4 stone) weight adults will need at least double that amount in winter maybe 3 times and taking 3 teaspoons of Fermented Cod Liver Oil would overload your Vitamin A levels.

20

Ted, it's appalling that so many do not get adequate magnesium...the RDA is ridiculous.