Insomnio inducido por el ejercicio inusual

Señales y síntomas
41

Lucas, 

This is my second reply to you.  I just had an after thought.  The first post has more ideas.

When you awake in the night, have a bottle of water on your night stand and guzzle it as fast as you can.  If you wake up hot, then drink a chilled bottle.  Then close your eyes and relax and try not to think about anything.  If you don't fall back to sleep immediately, grab a favorite book and start reading.  When I do this, I almost always wake up in the morning with my lamps on as I fall back to sleep reading.

42

Hi Lucas,

Some one was asking earlier regarding relationship to blood sugar level and these issues. While blood sugar, being pre-diabetic can effect the SNS axis, it's certainly not necessary.

Currently my diet as A+. Like you, virtually no sugar, low carb high fat and protein. So what this has meant is that I don't get "hangry", I have less in the way of bowel disturbance (lets call it...) and it's improved my mood generally. However, if I train in a way that overstimulates my SNS I will very likely have pounding and insomnia, no matter how well I eat. I've been struggling with it this week as I have been training up for my climb, which is why I came across this thread.

It's incredibly frustrating. I have been looking into sleeping aids. I have some stronger anti-histamine aids for the trip, and also Valerian root pills which did seem to help me last night. I slept for about an hour and a half and then boom...awake....really tired and sleepy but unable to actually sleep.

I also have problems with Hyperhidrosis - also part of the SNS axis. It's just something I live with but I'm hoping to get something to keep it at bay for the trip. Sweat in such extreme climates can be dangerous.

Broadly speaking I am pretty fit, in moderately good health. I eat really well, drink modestly, and I train a lot...but keeping this insomnia/fatigue reaction to exercise in check is very very challenging.

43

With the greatest respect, a dietician (clinical professional) would tell you that the diuretic effect of caffeine is minuscule next to the amount of hydration you take on from the water it's dissolved in. Herbal tea is great way to rehydrate - often better than water only because it has anti-oxidants and electrolytes. However, caffeine is a stimulant and if you have it late in the day it can still be in your system when you are trying to sleep. So for sure, avoid caffeine but it doesn't contribute to dehydration - you'd need incredibly strong coffee to see a noticeable effect.

My guess is that Lucas is Over Training - his symptoms sound exactly like that. Lucas, something to try would be a HR monitor and following Phil Maffetones maximum HR advice for your age. I think its 180 minus your age. It's really hard to exercise with HR that low, but it's broadly consistent with the advice I got from the NHS Chronic Fatigue Clinic, who were the most practically helpful of all the professionals I saw.

44

Thanks RohanS. Exactly my thoughts. I've been a bad sleeper my whole life. I think that this, and a busy life with allot of sports is been contributing to these problems I've, and most people in this thread, been experiencing.

When i started seroquel for sleep i finally slept the whole night after years of tossing and turning. I started weight lifting as i felt i owned the  world. But the use of seroquel had allot of side effects, from excessive sweating, brain fog, anxiety and i felt so dumb! It interfered so much whith daily life...

I tried to maintain sports as good as i could, but i soon felt back in my old pattern of bad sleep. I took some real steps back already in intensity, duration as in frequency. Which was already pretty hard to do.

I'm gonna follow up on your advice and see how it goes. Yesterday i did some pull-ups (3x8) which went fairly easy. Today i had to call in sick at work. Because i slept only three hours. And if it happens on occasion that you sleep a little less it's OK, but my whole sleep journal looks out of whack. Sport or no sports.

Do you got any more advice?

 

45

I understand your problems. I think the best exercise for this problem is to rest. But what if you can hardly sleep?  I also used anti-histamines occasionally, but i always feel zoned out and lethargic the next day.

I also use glyice 3g before which works quite well some times (except on training days). For more information: https://supplementsinreview.com/sleep/glycine-sleep/

I've been looking ages for supplements which can aid my recovery or sleep, because it's making me nuts! I'm starting to release now that i've to cut back on sports once more. And first stabilize my sleep. 

Let me hear if you had any improvements or problems and i hope we can all learn from each other and help one another!

46

Yes. I do.

For me personally, I found it very very hard...nearly impossible to limit my efforts. I went through a really bad phase of the OTS and I was diligent about training at low intensities, but I'd start getting better and then the opportunity for a blow would happen, I'd take it, and then it would set me back. Being a senior karate practitioner, I'd also want to lead from example - holding back is really hard when you are telling people to push themselves.

Everything you have written suggest you haven't gone past stage 2 OTS meaning you probably are in better positioned to crack it, so that's good. But ask yourself how you would feel about taking 2 or 3 months off training and just going for occasional walks. How does that make you feel? Most people with early stages OTS find that very confronting, and because they can't stick to it they get to stage 3 and permanent and very frustrating damage to their system. A lifetime of looking over your shoulder trying to manage what you do.

The people who might be best to help you professionally will be Chronic Fatigue clinicians. Also sports doctors, which is where I went to first. But you might be able to sort it out on your own by doing a little research on Over Training. A good primer for the SNS is this:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/symptoms-overactive-sympathetic-nervous-system-you-headed-chad-oler

Phil Maffetone has a good article here:

https://philmaffetone.com/the-overtraining-syndrome/

But stage 2 and stage 3 are not sympathetic and parasymapthetic overtraining respectively. I don't know why he called them that, they are 2 different types of over training. Everything else in the article is correct.

I'd also suggest that because you have always had problems sleeping, you have probably always been prone to over-stimulated SNS meaning you will also overtrain easily. That's a bit of a bugger for you really. Could preclude your favourite forms of exercise. That said, what I have found is that if you are really well rested, have eaten well and take measures to recover well, the odd periodic big blow out might be ok. I have had big training sessions and had no adverse reactions at all. Sometimes its hard to predict.

If I were you, I think I would try rejigging my training so that I don't get my HR too high. So if you are doing weights don't do 3 sets in a row, switch around a lot with plenty of rest in between, try to be really zen and calm. I have a routine I do which works really well...I feel nicely 'used' but not over-extended, I do a heavy week and then a light week and a session doesn't last more than 20 to 25 minutes and yeah, my fitness has been very good. Very, very good at times. But running is the worst - which is a pity because I LOVE running. I go for a run I'm guaranteed a horror night in bed.

A question...do you have problems with cramps? I don't think it is anything to do with OTS necessarily, but I do...I have to keep on top of the electrolytes as well.

47

Glycine....Ok....nice find. I'll look into that myself. I reckon the Valerian root pills helped me the once I have taken them.

Yeah if you are over-training your sleep disturbances are probably your "canary in the coal mine". You probably should give yourself a few days of lots of stretching instead of work outs and really really good meals and top quality sleep, then get back to it by starting gradually and then building up the intensity. Bit of luck you might be able to go quite a way without triggering bad sleep. All easier said than done.

Likewise good to know there are others out there....and thanks for the glycine tip. Much appreciated.

48

Hello all!

I am so glad I found this thread! I have exactly the same issue. 

When I was in my early 20s I exercised a lot, but not anything super extreme.

Then I started developing brutal insomnia - falling asleep super easily, but sleeping for only 2-3 hours and staying away until the next evening.  I thought I was going to go crazy...

Then I stopped exercising and it stopped. 

One year ago I had a baby and have been breastfeeding her since that time. I lost a lot of weight as a result of that, going even below my pre-pregnancy weight, but I really wanted to add exercise to feel that my body is strong and fit (not just skinny). And it started again!! OMG! I tried reducing the amount of exercise - it's the same! I tried yoga, eating more, exercising at different times, even such mild things as stretching - cause bouts of severe insomnia. I can't continue like that! I like feeling that my body can move, be strong, flexible and fit. The only way I can get a proper night of sleep is if I do nothing at all - except maybe easy walking. I did notice that exercises that involve strength make things much much worse - for that reason an hour of walking will not disrupt my sleep as much as 10 min of strength training. I have a feeling it has to do with the rate muscles repair themselves and if it is slow your sleep somehow gets affected... I also continue breastfeeding which burns a ton of calories (and maybe destroys the muscles even more) which probably makes my condition worse so that even mild exercise causes such problems... 

Totally agree that there is a physical, rather than psychological, cause to this issue.

49

Thanks for the tips Rohan. I've been doing better the last few weeks. I did no training or really light with stretching. And I slept a whole lot better.

I almost thought I was cured... Then something happened with a friend. He died. So I use training also as a way to cope with frustration and aggression. So I did a couple sets 90kg bench press x 5 and had three days of horrible sleep. Some of no sleep at all and had to puke in the morning the because I felt like crap. Even had to call in sick at work. So I'm gonna follow up on your advice and gonna rest. It's really hard if you're used to working out almost every day...

Thanks again for everything

50

No problem. We need to prioritize sleep... I think the chronic overloading of bodies has resulted in a decrease in recuperating with physical stress. We can only recuperate when we sleep better and deeper.

I'm also using ornithine and magnesium citrate atm (every day). I don't use glycine everyday, because it makes me wake up in the night. But if too well rested too fall asleep again. So I need to dose again lol. I will report back what helps best for these symptoms.

51

Me desperté a las 4am hoy, y soy un ave nocturna. Tengo un poco de calor pero mi habitación está a 65 grados, y estoy bastante hambriento/sediento después de comer y beber mucho. No puedo volver a dormirme.

Después de tomarme 8 meses libres del entrenamiento, empecé con un nuevo entrenador ayer. Así que esta fue mi primera sesión en mucho tiempo. Y me trabajó muy duro. Me dormí bien pero me desperté después de 4 horas o algo así. No puedo volver a dormirme.

Mi hermano mayor, que es genéticamente muy similar a mí (y extremadamente en forma), es médico. Después de comenzar una dieta cetogénica, se encontró despertándose por la noche con el corazón acelerado. Comer un montón de azúcar por la noche solucionó eso para él y también lo dejó súper en forma. Sigue esto http://carbnite.com y lo ama.

No puedo obligarme a comer tanta azúcar así. Pero supongo que también es algo de azúcar en la sangre para mí. (También me sale una erupción después de sobrecalentarme como mencionó alguien más aquí).

Así que para mi próxima sesión, voy a pedir más tiempo de enfriamiento (tal vez un rápido chapuzón o entrar en la sauna?), beber más agua durante el entrenamiento, y tomar un batido de frutas grande después. ¡Deseame suerte!

52

Hi Liza,

There's probably more than one way to become insomniac, but what you are describing sounds like the over-stimulated SNS (sympathetic nervous system) that I rather suspect us behind the problems a lot of us are having. I kind of think of it like hiccups - you get your system out of kilter and that is the physiological result, heart rate and endocrine system working too hard.But it also sounds like you are really sensitive. If walking is not causing the insomnia I am going to guess that your heart rate is the crucial thing. I'd get a heart rate monitor and log your exercise and if you have problems sleeping and see whether your HR might correlate with sleeping patterns. So if you exercise but never let your HR go above a certain amount, and you can sleep then you'll know that's the culprit. You could take that to your doctor and ask for an explanation, although in my experience, it will be outside of their expertise.

I'd also say, based on everything I have learnt about this, that there is not the distinction between physical and psychological that you might imagine. It turns out severe physiological trauma (even childbirth) can have profound physiological effects. There is quite a bit of evidence for this.

53

Hi Ada,

Well, good luck! I'd say if your brother has had some success with his diet plan then you should give it a go. Everyone's physiology is different, but maybe your is similar enough to your brothers it might work. Spiking my blood sugar is absolutely no go for me. Sugar is virtually poison for me. I'm pretty sure I am pre-diabetic (my father became type 1 at my age) and any sugar or carb-rich meals cause me issues personally, but they don't affect whether I can sleep or not.

Making sure you have everything your body needs to recover from exercise is clearly an important thing. If you still have problems sleeping perhaps consider changing your exercise regimen so that you don't spike your heart rate too much for too long. See if that helps. Just a suggestion.

54

This ^^^^^. This is exactly the case for me. After a serious case of overtraining five years ago, whenever I raise my HR above 110, I am hit with severe insomnia. Anything from cycling, golf, yard work etc will cause it, if my HR gets elevated. I feel sure its the stress hormones or chemicals released during elevated HR events that cause the issue. I guess my stress response is somehow "broken" and after five years, it appears to be permanent 

55

Thanks for your reply slalomdude...it all just helps build a picture of what the problem might be doesn't it?

According to the sports docs and the Docs at the fatigue clinic that helped me is that overtraining syndrome can lead to permanent damage and even when you have recovered lingering problems can return. The doc actually said after telling me how to recover from it "you must always respect it because it can come back and bite you on the bum."

In my experience since this, training carefully (in fact the rehabilitation is graded exercise therapy) will give you a slight buffer. Lot's of low intensity training can help give you some resilience against a big blow out. Maybe. Sometimes.

Interestingly, I came to the forum because of problems training for my Kilimanjaro climb, and while I had SOME problems on the trip they weren't too bad.

56

I have a similar condition and no answers. Also have restless legs syndrome. Magnesium and protein help to get me to sleep but DHEA 25 mg near bed time or after a workout do me wonders after a strenuous workout. I use Puritans Pride brand. I do not take it every day and do get my blood DHEA levels check on occasion. Hope this helps !

57

Hi Rohan,

It's been a while! How was your climb?

I've followed up on your advice mostly and it's been so much better. I finally started being rested again. I'm also starting working out every day (but just 20 mins of heavy lifting with long pauses). Like 5x5 bench press with 4 min rest in between. I do have to say that I still take glycine mostly with my last meal. And take a little evening snack (oats, whey, honey,cinnamon). I do still wake up at 5 am. But fall asleep again shortly.

I also noticed what's keeping me awake sometimes is a some kind of cramps in my legs. It's giving me the urge to move my legs to alleviate this feeling... I noticed it's worse when if been training my legs. How's your sleep going?

58

That's a coincidence. I just found out that I might be having rls also. But not every day? Is that possible. Some days even my girlfriend gets mad because I keep tossing and turning because feeling in my legs. It's not exactly pain, but rather a unpleasant feeling. It's only there when I'm lying down though. I'm gonna try dhea. Thanks for the tip.

59

Hi Lucas,

My climb was amazing, thanks for asking! I did have some problems, but it wasn't unmanageable. I did have some insomnia, but the sleep I got was for the most part refreshing except for one of the days. I had a LOT of drugs. A lot of ibuprofen, diamox naturally (for the altitude) and a drug called oxybutynin that I got form my mate on the climb who is a doctor. That helped reduce sweating.

So here's a thing I noticed - I had big problems when I overheated as I started down from the summit. I didn't quite get enough time to calm down, and I found I couldn't stop panting until the following day - even at rest, and my HR wouldn't come down. Something to think about....how one react's to over-heating. I'm really glad you have been better. Your comment about your legs made sit up...

When I was overtrained I had pretty bad myalgia - muscle soreness - particularly in my legs. Only it doesn't feel quite like normal muscle soreness, the best way to describe it was a bit like the feeling of sunburn only on the muscles. They constantly felt achy and I would (and still do) cramp really easily. And I constantly wanted to kind of stretch or rub them. One thing the sports doc mentioned is that (esp westerners) tend to think that if they don't smash themselves they haven't trained properly. You see and hear all sorts of things that support that ethic, push yourself, no limits, It's Ok to sweat, it's OK to puke blah blah. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it is good or efficient training. Particularly if you are fit already, you could be robbing Peter to pay Paul biochemically speaking. So a lot of my rehab has been to realign my expectations.The way they put it is that every time you train or exercise, you damage your body - deliberately, but it IS damage. It's the recovery that makes you stronger and fitter as your body tries to adapt to the context your creating for it. So if you train too hard, or too hard too often, you are actually not getting stronger or fitter, you actually damaging yourself as fast and as much as it takes to repair. A zero sum game that can ultimately make you LESS fit.Also, the rush you get from a hard work out wears off...and you have to train harder and harder to get it. So I no longer seek that rush and take the view that I am out of credit with my body - too many injuries and problems from over training.And here's the thing...I am training light and easy, a mixture of cardio and resistance and I am retaining a pretty decent level of fitness. It really works. All that hard training in the past is still there...I just need to polish it a bit. Fitness-wise I pretty much had no issue on Kili. I had problems with my knees and feet from wear and tear over the years....but I smashed most of it. So my training for Kili was actually to stay off my feet and do almost no cardio - just resistance and keep my HR as low as poss when training. I already had a good base of fitness, no need to redo that and risk overtraining.Finally wrt your legs, it was recommended to me to have Epsom salts baths. It had no effect when I was overtrained but now they REALLY work. Good to hear from you Lucas.

60

You may be experiencing early symptoms of restless legs syndrome . I do not take DHEA for that but it may help. I take it for when I workout hard . Iron is know to help RLS along with anything that promotes blood oxygenation and dopamine, such as deep breathing , stretching etc. I do not recommend medication for RLS , only as a last resort and taking the lowest possible dose without ever increasing it.