What circumstances do others go into AF?

Heart health and blood vessels
1

Would like to ask what may seem like a daft question because I know we are all different however I just wondered  -  What symptons do others get when they go into AF?  And are there times in tends to happen to you?

For me its a flutter almost like indigestion right in the middle of my chest.   It typically can happen in the early hours  1.30 and 4.15 being favourite times often followed by going to toilet.     Other times it seems to have happened after an eventful day or after a medical test and when I have gone to eat.    Yet normally eating doesn't seem to flip it.     I guess I am puzzled over the fact  it's hard to tell if there is a digestive element so am just curious at what others experince.   Just had a AF event this morning thankfully all settled by taking my morning dose early with a little bit extra and am seeing consultant this week anyway.  Thanks 

2

Not a daft question at all. I have been trying to ascertain what starts my episodes of AF. Like you, my attacks usually come at night when I am in bed. They typically last 6/8 hours. When my attacks start, I feel as though a car ignition key has been turned and click, off it goes. I am sure alcohol has a part to play. I seem ok if I drink in moderation but cannot over indulge. Alcohol is not the total answer however as I have had them when not drinking. My attacks just seem to fade away and I am back to normal quite quickly. I seem to suffer an attack every 4 weeks or so.

 

3

Thanks for info.  Originally mine were always in the day.  The night time blips are new.    I cannot blame alcohol as I cannot drink it  which may be connected to what the problem is!    I would imagine alcohol is a trigger at a time when the body is already stressed out.      Your car igniion key reference I understand.    Since this all started I have become so weak and I describe that as " like having a handrake on inside".    I have more discomfort and pain on my right hand side around liver and also a seperate pain more where pancreas is.    Thanks for reply interesting. 

4

It gives me no pain at all I'm glad to say.

which medicines do you take? Do you think that perhaps the pills could be a  contributory cause to the problem. It's something I'm trying to find out.

 

5

not a daft question!... Mine starts most commonly at rest it can even be when reading or watching a "nice" film Heart feels very odd, can feel its bumpyness... i get dizzy and a bit faint, and breathless.... i agree that mid early morning is a favourite time for it too, three of my tripps ot A&E were from 3am wakeups...Also happens sometimes when sat at a desk working Three trips from work... the rest is reading or wathcing TV / film... i get so dizzy and faint, chest pain slowly builds that A&E trip is inevitable if the flecanide hasnt worked... sometimes i can walk it off if i get a bumpy but not AF heart only ever had one manager who understood that and he would send someone with me... the one that forced me into ill health retirement was not supportive infact they made things worse... Stress or de stressing seemed to be factors  

6

Hi Kate, I had about 6 episodes of PAF before an ECG in A & E in the early hours tracked it, after which I was put on Flecainide 50mg x2 and Xarelto 20mg x1

The first time it happened I was sat up in bed reading a book. I felt like my heart started to do the rumba. No discomfort or any other symptom. It lasted 90 minutes.

All subsequent episodes woke me up round about 4 am and were shorter.It was always the peculiar rumba rythym not the rate which felt odd to me, though medics always referred to it as palpitations. It always stopped spontaneously.

Since being on medication for 18 months I've had no episodes of PAF but have had Atrial Flutter lasting only about 10 minutes, which I'd never had before.

Recently I've sometimes felt a sensation in my chest, like a slight rumble, and thought I might be about to break into a PAF rumba or  flutter, but each time it's subsided, usually when I fell asleep.

I don't drink alcohol, so that's not a trigger, but I'm sure stress and insufficient sleep are. Haven't noticed any dietary connection either. Hope you get more replies that help you.

7

With me its more than I feel so unwell when in AF or a more intense version of every day life!     The medicine I take currently are Flecanide  150mg  per day and bisopropol 2.5mg per day and Apixaban.  

In the past had warfarin and amiodarone and propranol.   I was glad to get off amiodarone! 

Do I think its the pill?   - well answer is kill and cure  and chicken and egg.   I'm in on a hamsters wheel.    The symptoms I get when in AF are a magnified version of what I get and have had for years on and off  - cold and shaky   + flu like symptoms and pain around liver area. 

No cause found so classed overall with ME.       Then in 2011 flutter kicked in but it was after a very stressfull time away from home looking after relative.   Had several flutter events and A&E visits then Ablation for flutter in 2013 from which time I have been a wreck  - very weak - cannot walk down the road somedays etc etc.  All random on and off every day.  Had to give up driving!    If I try and cut down on flecanide it flares up.    I have a suspicion the bisopropol suit me less but again if I try and wean off I get rebound.  As yet no gastro problem found I've had scans in past but nothing comes up in that or bloods.   Having said that  I do wonder if a endoscopy might show something and it might help if I was acutally examined by a consultant!    My consultant has excepted that the symptoms might be secondary to taking tablets but says there is no safe alternative.     At the same time I also know I had a version of the same before I even went on tablets and hence its so confusing and life inhibiting.     Someone with x-ray eyes needed!  

8

Thanks for that all taken in .  I fully understand that ill health retirement isn't a cure eithier.   Got the t-shirt.  You don't have the pressure of working you just get other stresses.     

9

Thanks for info makes sense  - seems like a good idea/postive thought to call it a rumba  -  I must admit I don't get stressed when it happens but perfectly calm although stress can send me into it  - physical stress I mean mainly  - if it mental stress then its all unconscious with me but clearly going on.    Sounds like you have just enought meds to keep you more or less stable.   More might give you more side effects.   

10

due to the independant occ healt hperson not understanding the combined effects of ME, intermittent AF and Prinzmetal angina, and wanting more information, i am still wating to get the tee shirt.... which is making things a lot worse.....GP, two different consultants (one ME and cardio one cardio speaclist) letters and interviews now all in so maybe just maybe.... AF is treated by pill in pocket 200mg Flecanide currently unwilling / undable to do pacemaker or heart operatios due to ME and Prinzmetal as the ythink the surgey could be more dangerous than the illnesses......also pacemaker could cause more Prinzmetal spasms anyway. it is suggested that i may have scarring on my atria from when i was doing training for my athletics and so scarring in new wave routes may be out of the question anyway...........

 

11

Thanks for that - I'd not heard of Prinzmetal before today but have just looked it up so I have learnt something new today.    I note the link with Acetycholine which strangely a wise friend mentioned to me not long ago. 

Back in 2011 I had a test for my pump and vessels and all was well then.  My brother also has AF but he had to have stents and my Grandmother had Angina so perhaps some predisposition to get certain things.    I hope you get the t-shirt and only hope that doesn't mean you will need to rely on benefits because that is an experience!    

12

Rumba a good description

As I said mine usually just subsides after 6/8 hours. The only drug I take is amlopodine for hypertension. One of the main side effects is palpitations/arrhythmia as is the case with most other hypertension drugs. I had an ablation for atrial flutter last autumn but have had several attacks since so await my next meeting with the specialist.

13

I'm still trying to work out what sends me into Afib. Up until 5 weeks ago, I thought I had had it sorted. 

I had been in rhythm for 11 months, addressed my severe sleep apnea and made some fairly significant lifestyle changes.

My severely enlarged left ventricle (EF25%) has made a complete recovery(EF now 58%).

I had to cardioverted 5 weeks ago, and then again last Thursday!

Each time it happens, I am completely unaware of it. I only know because my blood pressure device has an Afib function that flashes when/if I'm in Afib.

Im completely asymptomatic.

I'm on Sotolol, carvedilol and apixaban, and once again don't get any noticeable side effects from these meds.

I've had a number of theories as to why I go out of rhythm, but latest theory is dehydration ( I live in Adelaide, South Australia-a hot, dry temperate climate).

I've been reading a how dehydration can effect your electrolyte levels(like  potassium & magnesium).

I record my blood pressure, heart rate and weight every morning, and noticed last Thursday (when I was in Afib) that I was 1.5 kg lighter than the day before and couldn't really pin it on anything except dehydration?.

I guess anything that changes your physiology could be a trigger??

It'll be interesting to see how the next 4 or 5 weeks go for me.

My cardiologist wants to refer me to an electro physiologist  talk start discussing the possibility of an ablation.

Am probably clutching at straws a it with my dehydration theory, but am really hoping I'm right. I could live with being cardioverted very 6-12months, but every 4 weeks or so is way too often for that sort of thing.

 

14

I've been on this before but here I go again....histamine. This I am sure is the cause of many PAF episodes.

I have gotten rid of my PAF completely (I think) by taking probiotics containing bacteria that are known to digest histamine.

In hindsight, I think my PAF's started a month or 2 after I was on a tough antibiotic regimine (doxycyclin for 90 days) for some skin infection.  I am sure antibiotics can lead to afib if the cards are aligned correctly.

Can anyone here relate the AFIB beginnings with recent (1-2-months) antibiotic use?

Frank 

15

Thanks for info.    It's reminded to to go and get a cup of fruit tea!   I drink well first thing and later in evening but in day I don't get thirsty and have to remind myself to drink  in the day so I will keep an eye on what I drink.      On one of my hospital visits I was asked why is my Potassium high  - as if I should have known!    I don't eat that many bananas - ha ha.    Amazed you don't know when in AF but I know we are all different.   I told a neighbour how bad I was after ablation but because she knows someone who's had it several times and is not so symptomatic as  me she looks at me as it to say "pull yourself together".     I've got a feeling are bodies are fighting different unknowns and the one organ that eventually goes Yeek is the heart. 

16

Now I've added a probtiotic to my cup of tea!   (Following on from previous comment)   I do take them on and off although generally my body seems to struggle with supplements which when reading some info on Hiatal Hernia it explained why that might be.    I don't know that I do have HH  it was an article about it and a link with Vagus Nerve which I thought made a lot of sense to me. 

Strangely I had a long term treatment of doxcyclin some months prior to my first AF event!    That treatment was to try and help my ME!   So that is another interesting comment - thanks. 

I've also been treated on and off with thyroid which probably has confused my body but that is a long and confusing story so won't go there. 

 

17

Kate -

probiotics are tricky; some actually produce more histamine or cause its release in the gut, causing stomach pains (like HH), gas and afib.  

The strains of bacteria I look for are - L. acidophilus (for lactose intolerances), L. rhamnos, B. bifidum and B. longum, for the anti-histamine responses. It took me about a month for the full effect of these to be felt, but I still take that probiotic every day before breakfast.   

Frank

18

Hi YES I started the AF after a stay in hospital with pneumonia, one consultant said SVT, the next said AF, I really think they dont know and had one year of rattles taking Verapamil, now one year of Amiodarone and very few episodes. Just waiting for more test results. Oh, and I sneeze a LOT, allergies to everything but take no drugs for this.

19

Eating especially late evening does have an effect, talking of indigestion when i first stasrted with AF 8 years ago i was put on Plavix [blood thinner]

i got terrible indigestion & more frequent AF bouts at night, i eventually was put on warfarin instead of the Plavix ,this was after my first ablation in 2010 & i had to take the warfarin for 12 months, but the indigestion was even worse & i use to get terrible reflux in bed at night, my GP prescibed Nexium for this,  i did not know it was anything to do with the blood thinning meds' at that time,until i stopped taking them.

Since i have stopped taking all the chemical meds' I get very little indigestion now , i feel much better, more energy & no where near as much arthritis pain as i use to have, i very rarley need any painkillers at all now.

Chemical Meds are a cheap quick fix & big money spinner for the drug companies in my opinion, but  they can cause too many other side effects to the extent that you need extra meds to fix the side effects.. & then some

20

Thanks for that  - I do have to be careful not to eat late too.   I have gone into AF a couple of times after an 'eventful' day in the evening when I have gone to eat in evening.   Food for thought I see the consultant tomorrow but looking back on my last visit when I said  - what about the gastro link  - his reply was " I am not a gastroenterolgist"   Very helpful