hello all, hmmm confusion reigns supreme here in sunny Caithness. visit to gp this morning for latest blood test results having been taken off statins a few weeks ago, once again my liver function is'nt up to scratch so they were ringing the hospital to hurry up the ultra sound mentioned weeks ago! also the indicator that shows muscle deterioration had also gone back up slightly?? was advised to stop a supplement I was taking to see if that had any bearing on things (ubiquinol 100mg one per day) so I'm perplexed and also a tad worried that my liver thing has'nt stabilised, perhaps the statin has caused permanent damage? oh the joys of life haha
Uiquionol is Q10, right? Anyone still taking statins should be taking that as well, because it's an enzyme which is depleted by statins. Some doctors recommend it for people on statins.
I can't find any claims that it would cause liver or muscle problems, that would be the statins: Q10 can cause negative effects in some people but not those particular problems.
Do you mean the muscle deterioration has INCREASED since going off statins? That's a worry because there is a permanent muscle condition which statins causes in some people.
Was your cholesterol high enough to warrant taking such a dangerous medication as statins? You may not know that the level at which cholesterol is now regarded as too high and therefor needing statins, was determined by a US committee with the majority of members being from the pharmaceutical industry.
I'm assuming you tried the usual cholesterol lowering diet?
I'm slowly getting my cholesterol down with Psyllium Husks - 3 tsp most mornings when I have porridge for breakfast. It's a powder which expands very quickly on contact with moisture, so should never be taken dry or you may choke and also shouldn't be taken within an hour or so of any medications because it can prevent absorption. Yeah I know a bit of a nuisance if you're on medication which has to be taken with food: I get around it by having a banana or some yoghurt later on with my medication.
Did you taken yourself off the statins or did the doctors do so? If they did so there must've been a reason for that, because most doctors don't accept the huge amount of evidence regarding the negative effects and some even prescribe it to people with normal cholesterol levels as a "precaution".
Stay in touch with this forum and you'll get lots of info - all the best.
Caithness is in Scotland, right? And spring right now? So is the "sunny" reference ironic? Here in the beautiful mountains outside Melbourne Australia, winter has finally arrived - I've been told there's even a bit of snow on the mountain above me, but it's been too cloudy to see it. However, the temperature's going back up to the 20's at the weekend, something to look forward to.
Take care David and if you have a bs detector keep it active around the doctors: if you don't have one I suggest you get one fast. I do hope you don't have any permanent damage from the statins: I reckon it's only a matter of time before there's a class action against the manufacturers. My life was absolutely hideous on them: pain, weakness, depression and loss of libido, I'd rather risk high cholesterol than all that
I
Good morning David and I am disappointed to hear that they have advised you to stop your ubiquinol as that is the one thing that would help you.And although sadly I think your statin damage may well be permanent..do not despair.. I think once your liver has stabilised things I'm sure will improve.
All the very best and do please kep us notified of how things progress
CHEERS
How is the muscle detrioration measured. When I complained about it to GP and otrthopaedic consultant before finally stopping statins nothing was said about any available tests for it.
I love your part of the world my ancestors were from Sutherland (Dornoch and Helmsdale) It may be sunny but is the sea calm enough to risk the John o' Groats ferry?
I don't know how that's measured but there are tests for just about everything so probably one for that too - ultrasound maybe?
Can you tell yourself that you're physically weaker than you used to be? That's the best test in my opinion: I'll give an example I've given before on this forum. On statins it took me two weeks to stack a 2 cm load of firewood: an identical load a fortnight after I'd gone off statins took me 2 days! That's proof enough for me, although admittedly it wasn't just the physical weakness it was the extreme fatigue.
I also went from being able to do 20 lifts of 5 k dumbell weights to only being able to do about 5 when I was on statins, so that's definitely muscle weakness
Tell ME about increasing muscle weakness... I was put on statins for no good reason apart from a mild episode of palpitations ... which was wrongly diagnosed as being PAF ie paroxysmal atrial fibrilation.
Within six months of being on statins I could no longer get up off the floor after putting some logs on my fire. That scared me silly as I live alone.
Three years later and I still can't get up off the floor if I do have to go down that far!
Sadly ubiquinol did not help me although I have stayed on it religiously just in case someday I feel better.... I live with that hope.
My neurologists now admit that the statins affect with me has been threefold --- total motor block + polymyalgia rheumatica and advanced sarcopenia.
Luckily my kidneys were spared so no rhabdmyolsis.... a well known result of Statin damage....and strangely enough all my blood results come back as totally normal every time.
As I have said previously on this forum.... for somebody in their 70s who was as fit as I was three years ago when I could walk my dogs every morning without fail 3 miles before breakfast - and nowadays it takes me all my time to cross a room ....
I tell you, Big Pharma has a hell of a lot to answer for.... I just hope to live long enough to see them suffer - big time!
Ubiquinol is actually Co Q10.
Awesome info, folks. Just went back onto Atorvastatin a month ago - generic for Lipitor - which my cardiologist says will make my memory less patchy than simvistatin did, and that it's just routine. (According to the FDA, all statins are alike on their side effects.) I have alerted my cardiologist that I want an explanation, seeing as how he has me on it for nothing but "Protocol" purposes, and my LDL is not even close to being elevated. It is well inside the safe zone, tho my HDL could be a bit higher.
He has some explaining to do, since he has never once - in the 2.5 years since my heart operation and thus numerous cardiac consultations with him - mentioned one word about side effects of any of the drugs he has put me on. Including the statins.
See the current entry on the FDA website about statins and new warnings:
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm293330.htm
And here's another link at this very site about it all, another eye opener for me that I came across yesterday, I immediately made a long coment there -
Thanks to all for your experiences. They are making me afraid to stay on the statins, even for a little while, and he wants me on them permanently! Just routine when you've had a heart operation.
"Be afraid. Be very afraid..."
as the Beatles famously said "hey Jude" bet you've never heard that before ever ever? haha. a bs detector? that must surely mean a [***] detector, right? yeah Caithness is the most northerly county on mainland UK, gods country, allegedly. funny enough I was'nt being ironic, just for once, it was beautiful sunny morning though quite chilly with it, I'm a few hundred metres from the North Sea which has a sting in its tail. twas the doctor who took me off the statin, due to my six monthly blood test showing the liver enzyme abnormality, also the muscle waste thingy. I was on statins long term, my father died in 1984 of heart failure after severe stroke so I was advised to check my cholesterol levels, and yes they were high, I was 29 years old, now cough cough I'm the youngest 60 year old in Scotland. I had a year of diet trying to lower it without success so the 20mg Simvastatin was promptly shoved down my throat up until April 2014 when I had a heart attack, which then prompted the regular blood tests (there can't be much left, the buggers have taken gallons) they put the Simvastatin up to 40mg after I was released from hospital which shortly thereafter was causing acute muscle aches and cramps mainly in my poor wee legs, so they changed it to 20mg Atorvastatin which did'nt help the pains, although it did get my cholesterol down to 4.3 which was great! hence a few weeks ago the descision was made to stop the statin with fortnightly blood tests monitoring the liver and muscle issues, both of which as I said are fluctuating up and down, god knows why?? so I await anxiously for the liver ultra sound which I hope will shed some light on that subject. part of my problem is my location, slap bang in the middle of nowhere, nearest hospital with required equiptment is almost a 100 miles away and we savages living in caves in the north are "the forgotten people" I hear you all, yes get the violins out 
gosh my little fat fingers are wearing away here tap tap tap. and I am defo going to try source the Phsyllium husks to see if it helps, thankyou for that (will it help me lose weight? the powers that be are going nuts because I'm a stone overweight, and short of sewing my mouth shut I'm losing that battle) bless you all, I'm truely greatful for your kind words and support..... 
Emis Moderator comment: I have edited this post due to the swearing. These are open forums so as per the T&Cs please do not use offensive language in posts otherwise they may be deleted.
have sent a reply jude but the moderator has stolen/borrowed/is moderating it, sorry
That's just terribleAlzheimer! So ...... are you suing anyone, I would be! Did you even have high cholesterol???? You don't mention it, so was it one of those check you age and dole our a script as a "precaution?"
I found it scary going off the statins because I did have high cholesterol levels - well, high according to the US pharma dominated committee which changed them in the 70's and diet didn't make any difference. I eventually decided life wasn't worth living on them anyway.
Have these pill pushers apologised to you? I bet not.
I too lie (Ha Ha I'll leave that typo as it is) - live alone at 68 but couldn't have continued to do so if I'd stayed on the statins.
Blood results wouldn't indicate muscle and/or nerve damage though, would they? Pardon my ignorance if that's off the track.
I feel really sad for you &I wish I could offer you some comfort, but I can't think of any. I'm so angry that you and others are goijng through this, it's JUST NOT FAIR!
Thank you so much for your support Jude - I really appreciate it as I have appreciated any and all support on this forum believe me
I just wish I could afford to take Big Pharma to court..
I agree it is just not fair... the whole statin debacle isn't fair in fact..... But as we say in Scotland "Big Pharma is the Laird o' Many Pouches" and we humble mortals just can't compete financially...and they know it damn them!!!
The writing is on the wall though ...as at last it is beginning to happening in the USA that the cases against them are stacking up. Hopefully the UK will catch up.... But I doubt I will not be around to see retribution hit them where it hurts most.....in their wallets.
By the way I was not given statins because of high cholesterol - mine was only 5.7 down from 6.7 due to eating oatcakes and porridge and my usual vegetarian diet of course and dare I say it - lots of exercise - which now thanks to the statins I can no longer do of course....GRRR!
I think by the way that some of the blood test can show muscle damage certainly...as the proteins would show that.
Nerve damage would be more difficult and I don't know one for that....... But then I am very out of date nowadays!!!!
That's even more tragic for you and irresponsible of the doctors to have prescribed the statins needlessly,
Class actions dont usually cost the claimants anything in Australia because they're run by public spirited lawyers who don't of course take the risk unless they're as sure as they can be they'll win it for their clients.
You must have some lefty lawyers left (sorry about the pun) in the UK? Why not have a go? Would keep your last years interesting and help other people too.; I didn't end up with any permanent damage from the statins but if I had I would've at least tried to get compensation, exhausting as legal action always is.
I LOVED your quote: I could clearly hear the Scottish accent in it! I've written it down on my calendar so I don't forget it - thanks for the chortle!
You're prob right about the blood tests, but you know your own body and what you used to be able to do that you can't do now.
I think one of the issues with taking action is that most of us who are prescribed statins aren't young so any syptoms can be written off as age-related.
"Take care of yourself and please stay in touch!
EEEEK!
I was having a look around the site here and at the bottom of this page Mr Bob has had his comment sent for review etc However - I ticked the red word "why" at the bottom of his non-posted posted - if you get me..lol ..and I was taken to a page of information about why and what we can post.
Recommend we all read it but I still think it's OTT.....
Anyway read all about it folks!!
"Why has my post been sent for moderation/not been approved?"
NOW WE KNOW...
Thanks for that info alzheimer
I am glad I gave you a wee Scottish chuckle, Jude!
However just remember that the word "pouches" is pronounced "pooches" in the Scottish dialect...LOL
Which of course in English means something totally different.... Which is why I Englified the spelling...HA HA
In all seriousness though I agree that many symptoms could have been put down to being age-related.. however I have always been a very feisty and fit old soul which is why I knew exactly where my symptoms occurred....ie When I started the statins and as I do not believe in medical coincidences I can quote chapter and verse as to dates etc to my neurologists... Which initially they refuted totally and stated that they were not going down that route.
Recently however they have changed their tunes and were very happy to have the printout I have given them about Dr Duane Graveline's experiences which absolutely mimic my ones... Except thankfully I never suffered from the Transient Global Amnesia that he had back in 1999 "Lipator - the Thief of Memory" is a very good book...
Which you can download from Amazon actually as an ebook or in MP3 format...and is well worth reading.
By the way which part of Australia are you living in.... I'm up in Aberdeenshire... And we are still experiencing snow believe it or not....BRRRR
I did realise how it's pronounced, used to be married to a Scotsman way back in the dim dark ages of my life, he had no accent but his parents and their friends sure did! They were from Mauchline, Burns country, and it took me a while to understand what they were talking about half the time. They sure overturned the myths about Scots being stingy and dour!
I too was fit and strong before the statins and except for the restrictions oif first stage COPD I am again: I'm so sorry you're not.
I'll check out that book, I think I came across a reference to it somewhere else on the net - my local library network is great at getting in books I order from all over the place so I'll try that before I lay out any $
I'm in beautiful mountains NE of Melbourne and LOVE it in spite of it being a dangerous bushfire area: this summer has been OK but I do say that if the bushfires don't get me some time, the smoke will. I have an evacuation plan but sometimes fires come so quickly it's impossible to get out - there's only one very narrow road out of this town, so I have a backup plan, smoke masks etc and a little cubby under the house I'll retreat to with the dog.
As well as mountains we have the beautiful Yarra River just down the hill from me.
Snow is an exciting novelty here and people drive up from the city to play in it - we locals are a bit more blase about it, but it does bring the tourist $ into the town. Are you in a town or in the country? I've always wanted to go to Scotland but don't imagine I ever will.
All the best - nice chatting with you
I had no idea that as soon as someone's post is held up for moderation it disappears. Appears that's what has happened to mine.
So here's what I wanted to say: As soon as I read this thread, "Does Simvastatin 40 mg cause memory loss and amnesia?", I had to respond to it.
My link was to that thread, plus to the fresh article currently on the FDA's website on Statins and new dangers. I am sure you can search out that fairly easily, a nurse at my cardiologist's office came up with it yesterday while I was still on the phone with her!
Thanks so much for all your contributions, being here has really been an eye opener - esp. the reference to the 1999 book, "Lipator - the Thief of Memory", by Dr Duane Graveline. Esp. since Lipitor is what my cardiologist prescribed when I told him that the Simvistatin had had noticeable effects on my memory - and not good ones!
Here's what I posted on that other thread, you won't need to see my suppressed/"held up for moderation" post now. No need for moderation on this one since there will be no links in it -
I was on Simvistatin 40 mg for 2 years following my heart operation in 2012, on automatic treatment from my cardiologist. Protocol for patients having had heart operations. My LDL was/is not out of range and has been within fully safe limits, but my HDL could be higher.
My heart operation was NOT cholesterol related, the need for the operation came from other directions, this is straight from the doctors because I asked. Even in view of that, he said that taking the statins should be done as a preventive measure. Even dating back to our initial consultation, he has never once made any mention of any side effects, much less some very serious ones listed in the FDA's current advisory posted on their website.
My cardiologist is very convincing and says it is best to be on statin drugs if you've had any heart condition. I asked him at the time how long, and he said for the rest of my life. That in itself is a bit shocking, as I don't believe in making my body dependent on ANY drug.
The memory patchiness - being a patchwork quilt with massive blank spots - came up gradually and almost unoticeably over that 2 year period, until finally what I was not being able to remember became unmistakable. Words I would reach for and not find, names I knew were there but I simply could not recall, no matter how hard I tried.
Once I noticed the memory patchiness had gotten really noticeable on the simvistatin - it's hard to be aware of what it is you are unaware of - I went off the simvistatin and gradually my memory became reliable again, filling in the empty patches and delivering three dimensional life again, which had gone very one dimensional while on the statin.
(Unfortunately one of the drugs on the list that is known to cause that memory patchiness is thyroid supplementation - which I need because my thyroid gland was hit by the Xrays in the radiation therapy in '80, while being treated for Hodgkins Disease. Now I take 100mcg every day. Can't stop taking that one.)
Recently during an office visit with my cardiologist I told him about stopping the Simvistatin a year ago and he started me on Atorvastatin 40mg instead, saying Lipitor would have less deleterious effects on memory than Simvistatin. But the advice I have read from the FDA earlier today says that all statin drugs act alike. And in the month I have been taking Atorvastatin, I find I am reaching for people's names more now again, like before, and this time I am not allowing it to creep up on me. I can't help but wonder what it is that should have been occuring to me these days, that is NOT occurring to me because of the blank/blind spots in my memory. Again, what is it that I am supposed to be aware of that I am not aware that I am unaware of?
As of today's FDA advisory reading, I am now worried about my liver, diabetes, and potential muscle damage as well. "The rest of my life?" I don't think so.
I will be showing my cardiologist the FDA warning and will probably stop the atorvastatin at the end of the month, unless he presents me with compelling proof that I need it. Had to do the same thing in the hospital after my heart operation when they were hitting my lungs with searing Atavan and other breathing drugs 4 times a day, burning my throat and IMHO scarring it. My breathing was just fine! I rebelled. When confronted with my demand for proof of the need for such treatment, they went away and came back later, saying it was my choice, I could quit if I wanted. They could not present me with any earthly reason for me to be taking it except that "It's protocol". So of course I quit it.
Why did they endanger and stress out my delicate breathing apparatus for no good reason? What would have happened to my lungs if that had continued, 4 times a day, until I was released on the 9th day? Why don't they find the side effects of these things as important as the POTENTIAL help I would get from keeping my already safe-level cholesterol levels down further??? These side effects were not even MENTIONED by my cardiologist. Ever.
My chiropractor says our brains are made of fat and need a certain amount of cholesterol to function properly. I think that, at least in my case, the statin drugs are depriving my brain of that, and making me unaware of things that should be occurring to me naturally. In which case I consider these drugs not only deleterious, but insidious as well. Taking it for the rest of my life? Sorry Charlie.
Not an option.
Wow you have been having a hard time!
If i were you I just wouldn't take statins. I always check the website for the manufacturers' information, but my cholesterol was high so I stayed on them with no ill effects for about a year after my heart attack. I realised later that I was also still taking St John's Wort for mild depression and I'm POSITIVE I told the cardiologist that after the stent was inserted in a conversation about taking fish oil and he said to keep taking what I was already taking.
Well, St John's Wort can block the effect of some prescribed medication and I reckon it was blocking both the postive (cholesterol lowering) and negative effects of the statins, because when I went to hospital about a year later with what I thought was another heart attack but turned out to be pneumonia, I was told I shouldn't be taking SJW with all the other medication.
So I stopped taking it and lo and behold, about a month later started getting some of the negative effects the manufacturer lists on the website! Specifically, depression different to any I've experienced; extreme exhaustion and lethargy: muscle weakness; many different types of pain all over my body and total loss of libido.
When reporting back to my cardiologist and then to my GP, I was changed to lower doses and other brands of statins - exactly the same effects. A locum GP prescribed a non-statin cholesterol lowering drug - same effects, so I reckon it's actually the lowering of the cholesterol which does at least some of the damage.
After much thought and quite a bit of fear, I went off them totally and all the negative effects vanished within a month or so. I tried a few "alternative" type treatments for high cholesterol but none of them worked.
I'm now getting it down with Psyllium Husks, slowly, but it is coming down and if I start getting statin-like symptoms I'll assume my cholesterol is too low and cut it down.
If you or anyone else is wanting to try these post your interest on here & I'll give you the precautions, which I did put on here not long ago.
Isn't it amazing that so many doctors prescribe statins as a "precautionary measure" when they're not in fact needed, as in your case? There does seem to be a fair bit of evidence emerging that high cholesterol isn't always or maybe even often a factor in heart attacks.
I thought it was fairly well known by now that low cholesterol isn't a good thing either, because as you say our brains need it to function properly, which would explain your memory disruptions. I did have a bit of that, but until I read your post I'd put it down to the statin induced depression and the amount of painkillers I was having to take for the statin-induced muscle and nerve pain.
Even though mine was a bit high I don't believe it had anything to do with the heart attack either: it happened almost on the anniversary of when I'd been raped exactly a year before and I really believe that had more to do with it than cholesterol. Who knows, but that's what I think anyway, because I'd been to hospital by ambulance not that long before and everything was checked out and OK.
Good luck with the medical system and stay in touch
By the way - you know that NASA Physician and astronaut I keep on rabbiting on about and how everbody on here with statin problems and concerns - should track him down and read his erudite articles......well might I suggest you look for the 'spacedoc' - that should help find Dr Duane Graveline.
Perhaps then a lot of our questions will be answered and our suspicions be confirmed...
His latest Newsletter arrived in my inbox this morning and if you scroll down to the SITE MAP - you will find everything you need to know about statins....
ENJOY - as the kids say these days - although I doubt if is an apt instruction in this case. But I will say this - once you get into it - you may like Capt Oates.."be away some time"
Now then Jude - and everybody else that is interested - plug in spacedoc and have your mind blown!!
ENJOY.....LOL
Thanks for that, I'll check it out