Thanks for the info!
Happy to hear you are good right now, Nancy....
When I got on Pycnogenol back in 1995, we were told it "may" prevent cancer....that is the main reason I got on this antioxidant and it's 19 yrs on both grape seed extract and pycnogenol, I trade off on them.
Never heard about the radiation before a tonsil removal....I had mine out when I was about 5 in 1943...and I think it was my grandgirl who had them out about 5 yrs ago no radiation there either....
A friend developed nodules on her thyroid and this was from overdosing on Tums....more bad info from a doc....she ended up having thyroid removed, another bad piece of advice.... She's in an HMO system here and I have not the greatest feelings about HMO docs....
I've seen only integrative MD's for the last 15 yrs when I ended up with a Fibro dx....this has been a journey for sure....but I feel good about what I do and supps I work with.
Do you have any clues as to why cancer in kidneys?
I'm more into visualization on health and most things actually, and do meditate....
Right, Nancy. It does take discernment to sort though all of the competing theories and make an informed decision about what sounds most plausible. I do think that just because there are competing orientations isn't a reason to avoid educating oneself and keeping an open mind as new info comes in. But it certainlly does make us scientists in our own lives, right? Take care!
Nancy, did you check the Kidney group here? How about other kidney support groups at least ask about the mag dosing....wouldn't Cleveland Clinic be able to answer about the mag too?
Also, in the 1950's I had on-going stomach pain, so they did an x-ray. They saw I had three kidneys, (two on the right and one on the left). Since that time, they were always doing IVP dye cat scans to see that nothing was going wrong. in my opinion, all those years of cat scans and dyes may have started something. My docs have no opinion of what could have started the kidney cancer. They think it is just luck of the draw. I do not.
I'm glad you feel good about what you are doing. It is so refreshing to hear this. I think the mind is a wonderful thing...and to be able to visualize wellness is an absolute gift. It gives us hope when there doesn't seem to be an abundance of it.
Thanks again for taking an interest in me. Keep doing well.
Nancy
Absolutely! You take care too. Nancy
Actually, the kidney surgeon said it was OK to take 400 mg of mag every other day. But from what I read on the internet, I don't think I believe him...but I'm doing it anyway. I need to have these heart irregularities stop.
When you mentioned the kidney group there...is 'there' in England?
Well, there is a kidney group on this forum, just go into the groups and find it....then there are support groups for everything it seems today....I even found a support group to ask about ibuprofen use back a while ago....If you are in the U.S. and I don't know, but you could just google: Kidney issues support groups
And even do a google: can I take magnesium if I have kidney cancer or
can I take magnesium if I have kidney issues.
yahoo has a group for so many health issues, I'm on a couple. J
I've heard a lot about the dangers of cat scans...I've had 2 MRI's in my life both after hip replacement mess, but would avoid the catscan. Sounds pretty connecting to me, docs would NEVER admit any wrong doings...they push mamms like crazy, did you see my thread here on mammography.... J
hi joy
i'm quite nervous about taking calcium...but occasionally apply mag oil and intend to start epsom salt baths...
i wonder about taking calcium at all...any thoughts?
Marey, how else do we keep our bones strong? Mag and calcium and Vit D3....I have used mag oil but I find it irritates my skin so using it less lately. I sprayed it on my arthritic feet this morning before I put my socks on but hardly use it these days. I don't soak in a bath, I couldn't get down in my tub and if I could I'd never get out, it's very low to the floor, old apt I live in, and then there is the fluoirde and chlorine in the water....so I shower pretty fast and not daily for sure.....J
oh sorry joy....tackless of me to mention bathing to you ....but re: showers....have you considered a filter?
there is a small scale water purifer called adya but maybe for drinking only.
i've just had a 'big blue' water filter attached...so in principle i don't have to filter either my drinking or my shower water. tho how do i know if its working i wonder !! ? am using on trust....maybe there's a way of testing that extraction is working?
You are so right! I'll go look for your thread on mammography.
Hi Nancy--I'm so sorry to hear about all of the medical issues and problems that you have been going through in your life. I'm am sending warm feelings your way and hoping for your continued health. All my best to you! --Suzanne
Marey, fluoride shower filters cost about $100 here in the U.S. my budget can't handle that, so I just don't take a lot of showers like I did all my life,,,,our city fluoridated in 2009.... Maybe you don't have fluoirde in your water, do you have a well water system? I don't know how much of the UK fluoridates..
What about the calcium issue????
bother...just got moderated so will have to edit that info. sorry joy.
i'll be back xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Marey, I just talked to my gf who is very alternative and overweight....and she takes NO calcium, maybe 50mg mag when she gets a cramp/spam and 4000 IU's D3 and K2.
She said people who are heavier don't necessarily get osteoporosis....My back is thin but I have fat elsewhere.....but my back is straight as can be. No humps etc.... I have a bone density test some yrs ago and just don't feel like doing one again, my doc mentions them but I say pass on it...
She claims she gets nodules on her fingers when she takes calcium. These are deposits....I guess. I have a couple little nodules on two fingers and they never get larger, they've been there for many years....
She is going to try the calcium hydroapatite I use and see how she feels with a couple....she says she just feels "off" with it too.
If there is a relationship between Hormone-D and Thyroid it is based MORE on "Correlation," NOT on "Causation." But wait a minute...
On 2nd thought, let me explain the relationship for the 99th time...
Again, two seesaws, right?... One that has 25(OH) and 1,25(OH) on it. And the other that has Calcium and Maggie on it. Now here's the important part...
25(OH) (on seesaw #1) is tied to Magnesium (on the seesaw #2)...
1,25(OH) (on seesaw #1) is tied to Calcium (on seesaw #2)...
So, when the blood test (25(OH)) is LOW, that ALSO means that Maggie is LOW, And the ONLY reason why your DON'T know that is that your doctor would NEVER test your Mag RBC... Why?... Because they are taught NOT to in medical school...
And when 25(OH) is LOW, almost without exception, 1,25(OH) is HIGH. At least it has been for 99% of the ~100 MAG-pies that have gotten ALL four components tested properly.
And when 1,25(OH) is HIGH, that -- BY PHYSIOLOGY -- means that Calcium is HIGH... Why?... Because THAT is Hormone-D's JOB in the body -- ELEVATE BLOOD CALCIUM. Period.
JOURNAL OF APPLIED NUTRITION, VOLUME 34, NUMBER 2, 1982
GUEST EDITORIAL
THE CALCIUM CONTROVERSY
Guy E. Abraham, M.D.*
It is often stated that large amounts of calcium are required for strong bones, to calm nerves and for other characteristics of good health. Some nutritionists recommend up to three grams of calcium a day to prevent calcium deficiency. The purpose of this editorial is to review some aspects of Human Evolution, Physiology, Biochemistry and Dietary Habits in order to clarify calcium requirements and its close relationship to intake of other nutrients, mainly magnesium.
EVOLUTIONARY CONSIDERATIONS
Over the past 6000 years or more man evolved in a magnesium and potassium-rich, but calcium and sodium-poor, environment. For survival, the human body had to develop efficient conserving mechanisms for sodium and calcium. To conserve sodium, the Zona Glomerulosa of the Adrenal Cortex secretes a very potent mineralocorticoid, Aldosterone, which increases sodium retention via the kidney 27. To conserve calcium, the skin developed a synthetic process that manufactures Vitamin D3 from a cholesterol derivative, under the influence of solar ultraviolet radiation. Vitamin D3 is then hydroxylated by the liver to 25-OH-D3. The kidney is the site of the most important step: 1-hydroxylation of 25-OH-D3 to generate 1, 25 (OH)2 D3, the most potent calcium-conserving substance16. It increases calcium and phosphate absorption in the small intestine and decreases calcium excretion in the urine:
PHYSIOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS
The 1-hydroxylase is located in the kidney as a mitochondrial enzyme. It is sensitive to intramitochondrial calcium and phosphate. Intromitochondrial accumulation of both calcium and phosphate depress the activity of 1-hydroxylase, thereby decreasing formation of 1, 25 (OH)2 D322.A low phosphate diet increases and a high phosphate diet depresses 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 production20.
Besides 1, 25 (OH)2 D3, there are two hormones that play an important role in calcium metabolism: Calcitonin (CT) and Parathyroid Hormone (PTH)3. Both hormones are sensitive to serum ionized calcium levels. An increase in serum ionized calcium results in stimulation of CT secretion and suppression of PTH secretion.
CT and PTH regulate skeletal turnover of calcium and availability of cytoplasmic calcium3. The major skeletal effect of PTH is to increase bone resorption by stimulating osteoclasts, thereby increasing mobilization of calcium from bone. PTH also favors cellular uptake of calcium by soft tissues and phosphate excretion by the kidney. CT has the opposite effect, that is, it increases deposition of calcium in the bone matrix and blocks cellular uptake of calcium by soft tissues. Magnesium suppresses PTH and stimulates CT secretion28, therefore favoring deposition of calcium in the bone and removal of calcium from soft tissues. Furthermore magnesium enhances calcium absorption and retention5, 12, whereas increasing calcium intake suppresses magnesium absorption2, 25.
BIOCHEMICAL CONSIDERATIONS
Calcium and magnesium are often antagonistic in their effect of biological reactions7. For example, the biosynthesis of both phospholipids and proteins involve enzymatic steps which have an obligatory requirement for magnesium and are calcium-inhibited. The glycolytic pathway contains five enzymatic reactions that have an absolute requirement for magnesium and require optimal magnesium/calcium ratio for peak performance.
In order for the cell to maintain the proper magnesium/calcium ratio, several levels of regulation are available, acting on the removal of calcium from the cytoplasm. One such mechanism is the ATP-dependant calcium pump in the cell membrane 9, 10. The other important mechanism is the transport of calcium inside the mitochondria. The mitochondria uptake of calcium is reversible if calcium concentrations in the microenvironment are kept below certain limits. Above these limits, calcification of mitochondria occurs with subsequent cellular death. In the presence of magnesium, the uptake of calcium by mitochondria can be slowed down. Since ATP utilization is magnesium-dependent, it becomes obvious that the calcium pump at the cell membrane is also magnesium-dependent. The generation of ATP itself through the glycolytic pathway is in part magnesium-dependent and inhibited by calcium.
DIETARY CONSIDERATIONS
Stable civilizations have arisen only when primitive hunting communities have learned to cultivate cereals, such as wheat, rice maize, millets, barley, oats and rye. In many rural areas, cereals provide more than 70% of the energy consumed9. Table I shows the magnesium and calcium concentrations in these staple foods. They contain two to eight times more magnesium than calcium, and as much as one thousand milligrams of magnesium could be consumed if two thousand calories were obtained from these sources. One may argue that dairy products contributed to most of the ingested calcium. This is unlikely since 50% of individuals tested so far show allergic reactions to dairy products and lactose intolerance is common in most ethnic groups, occurring in 70% of Black Americans and over 70% of Orientals, Jews, Arabs, Greeks, Japanese, Eskimos, Indians, Africans and Asians 23, 17, 13, 14, 15, 1, 24, 18, 8, 19 ,30, 31.
[Guy Abraham Calcium Controversy]
Considering that 99% of the total body calcium is located in the bones, it is not surprising that academic proponents of high calcium intake have used as an argument the possible role of calcium deficiency in osteoporosis 11, 4, 29. There is no evidence, however, to support this view. Osteoporosis is not more common in those parts of Asia and Africa where diets are relatively low in calcium (300-500 mg/day) than in Europe and North America where consumption of dairy products contributes to more than1000 mg of calcium/day When patients with severe osteoporosis were given massive doses of calcium they went into positive calcium balance, but radiographic studies revealed no changes in the osteoporotic process Where did that calcium go? Obviously into the soft tissues where it does not belong.
Calcium balance studies have indicated that man can adapt to relatively low calcium intake by increasing calcium absorption and decreasing urinary excretion10. There is not such a mechanism for magnesium26. The adaptation to low calcium intake is most likely via synthesis of 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 by the kidney. It was previously discussed that high intramitochondrial concentrations of phosphate and calcium in the kidney suppress the formation of 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 20, 22. Therefore, mechanisms that increase intracellular and intramitochondrial calcium would prevent adaptation to low calcium intake. Failure of the calcium-pump at the cell membrane and increased uptake of calcium by mitochondria are two such mechanisms which are both magnesium-dependent as previously discussed. Since a low phosphate diet increases formation of 1, 25 (OH)2 D3 20 and a high magnesium diet would keep calcium out of the mitochondria, it seems therefore that one approach to improving the adaptation to low calcium intake is to ingest a diet low in phosphate and high in magnesium. Such an approach to the management of osteoporosis would seem more appropriate than the ingestion of massive doses of calcium. The latter approach blocks magnesium absorption and creates a magnesium deficiency, conducive to a failure of the calcium- pump and intracellular accumulation of calcium in soft tissues that eventually leads to irreversible cell damage. Also, magnesium deficiency results in elevated PTH which prevents the utilization of the absorbed calcium for bone formation and favors soft tissue calcification.
Recent studies suggest that calcium requirements are increased by acid-ash, high- protein and high sulfur diet21. In order to increase the efficiency of the adaptation mechanism to low calcium intake, every attempt should be made to ingest foods containing a magnesium/calcium ratio of two or more, with neutral or alkaline ash, not excessive in phosphate, sulfur, proteins, refined sugar, fats and other substances that drain the body of both calcium and magnesium. Magnesium deficiency causes a reduced intestinal absorption of calcium and decreased serum ionized calcium.
Magnesium has a calcium-sparing effect and decreases the need for calcium.
Since magnesium suppresses PTH and increases CT, adequate magnesium intake would improve the phosphorous balance from a low phosphate diet by increasing phosphate absorption via the 1, 25 (OH)2 D3mechanisms and by preventing the PTH induced phosphaturia. Furthermore, a high magnesium intake would enhance calcium absorption by the 1, 25 (OH)2 D3mechanisms, increase serum ionized calcium, promote deposition of calcium in the bone matrix where it belongs and minimize cellular uptake and mitochondrial accumulation of calcium. )
With such an approach there would be no need for pharmaceutical companies to develop new and improved calcium blockers in the management of cardiovascular diseases, since magnesium works naturally to produce the same end result.
REFERENCES
1. Alzante, H. Gonzalez, H. and Guzman, J. “Lactose intolerance in South American Indians.” Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 22: 122, (1969).
2. Amiot, D., Hioco, D. and Durlach, J. “Frequence du deficit magnesique chez le sujet et dans diverses osteopathies.” J. Med. Besancon 5:371-378, (1969).
3. Aurbach, GD., Marx, S.J. and Spiegel, AM. ”Parathyroid Hormone, Calcitonin, and Calciferols.” In textbook of Endocrinology, Williams, RH. (Ed), Saunders Co., 922-1032, (1981).
4. Aviolo, LV. “Postmenopausal osteoporosis: prevention versus cure.” Fed. Proc. 40: 2418, (1981).
5. Briscoe, A.M. and Ragen, C. “Relation of magnesium on calcium metabolism in man.” Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 19: 296-306, (1966).
6. Bryan, W.T.K. and Bryan, M.P. ”Cytotoxic Reactions in the Diagnosis of Food Allergy.” Otol. N. Am. 4: 523-533, (1971).
7. Bygrave, F.L. “Cellular Calcium and Magnesium Metabolism.” In An Introduction to Bio-inorganic Chemistry. Williams, D. R. (Ed) Thomas, 171-184, (1976).
8. Cook. G.C. and Kajubi, SK. “Tribal incidence of lactase deficiency in Uganda.” Lancet l: 725, (1966).
9. Davidson, S., Passmore. R., Brock, J.F. and Truswell, AS. “Human Nutrition and Dietetics.” Churchill Livingstone, 166-175, (1979).
10. Davidson, S., Passmore, R., Brock, J.F. and Truswell, A.S. “Human Nutrition and Dietetics.” Churchill Livingstone, 90-106. (1979).
11. Draper, H.H. and Scythes, C.A. ”Calcium, phosphorous, and osteoporosis.” Fe. Proc. 40: 2434, (1984).
12. DuRuisseau, J.P. and Marineau, J.M. “Osteoporose medication calcique et magnesienne,” See Int’l Sympos on Magnesium, 223-226, (1971/1973).
13. Gilat, T., et. al. “Lactase deficiency in Jewish communities in Israel.” Am J. Digest. Dis. 16:203, (1971).
14. Gilat. T., et. al “Lactose intolerance in an Arab population.” Am. J. Digest. Dis. 16:203, (1977)
15. Gudmand-hoyer, and F., Jarnum, S. “Lactose malabsorption in Greenland Eskimos.” Acta Med. Scand. 186:235, (1969).
16. Holick, M.F. and Clark, MB. “The photobiogenesis and metabolism of Vitamin D.” Fed. Proc. 37: 2567-2574, (1978).
17. Huang, S.S. and Bayless, T.M. “Milk and lactose intolerance in healthy orientals.” Science 160: 83, (1968).
18. Johnson, J.D., et. al. “Lactose malabsorption among the Pima Indians of Arizona.” Gastroenterology 73: 985, (1977).
Now, here's where it gets FASCINATING...
o what your doctor doesn't know is that the Thyroid is RULED by the mineral ratio of Calcium/Potassium. You do NOT solve a Thyroid problem with Hormones... You correct the mineral imbalances...
o what your doctor ALSO doesn't know is that Hormone-D CAUSES Renal Potassium Wasting... Hmmmmm...
o And furthermore, what your doctor doesn't know is that supplemental-D, unopposed by animal-based Retinol, will CAUSE a depletion of Vitamin-A in the Liver. This then leads to a depletion in the production of Ceruloplasmin, a key transport protein, which makes Copper bio-available.
OK, so let's review...
o Hormone-D CAUSES a rise in Blood Calcium...
o Hormone-D CAUSES a LOSS of Potassium via the Kidneys...
o Hormone-D, therefore, CONTRIBUTES to (CAUSES) Hypothyroidism BECAUSE It sends the Ca/K ratio into ORBIT, thereby SLOWING DOWN the Thyroid function...
o Hormone-D CAUSES a depletion of Ceruloplasmin, which makes Copper "deficient" and thus contributes to Hashimoto's which is affected greatly by a lack of Copper...
Ca/K on an Ideal HTMA should be 4 parts Ca to 1 part Potassium (K). Most people have Calcium that is 3-5X Ideal, and a Potassium (K) of between 1-3. More Hmmmmmm...
We have had numerous folks on MAG and in our practice recover from their "permanent" Thyroid issues with optimal diet, supplementation and "Stress!" management, and correction of their Adrenal dysfunction that is at the base of the problem...
Well, alrighty then... I hadn't pieced it ALL together until this outstanding thread challenged me to do so... Many thanks for that!F Report about 7 hour