Entrenching hypothyroidism?

Hormones
1

I was recently diagnosed, through two blood tests as having an under-active thyroid. I had none of the usual symptoms, but I was prescribed Levothyroxine 50 micrograms and told to take it for the rest of life. I guess in all likelihood the dosage will need to be increased in the future, depending on blood test results.

But I have a question. Perhaps the under-active thyroid is only a temporary imbalance – a response to some environmental or psychological factor.. And what if those factors change or end after a while? In the absence of medication I can imagine that the thyroid swings back into normal operation.

But as I AM taking medication, the thyroid hormone levels in my body are normal, are they not? So the brain does not know there is a problem. So it does not act (assuming this is possible) to adjust hormone production in the thyroid gland. So the gland stays in under-production. It has no chance of functioning normally again. And the condition becomes entrenched

The same sort of argument is applied to the wearing of glasses. The refractive error produced by the eye may be a temporary imbalance, as a result of stress, environmental factors, etc. If the glasses are prescribed, the eyes are in focus with those glasses even though they are producing a refractive error. And so the brain is fooled, it says to itself ''Everything is perfect, no need to adjust the eyes''. And so the refractive error becomes fixed, established.

I would welcome people's comments on this perspective.

Clive

2

The only way to find out is to come off the levothyroxine and have another blood test, as I think the only way we could do that is to decrease  the dose gradually under doctors advice. Like you I was told I have to take it for the rest of my life,the blood test prove if the level of thyroxine is working one way or the other. It is an interesting argument. Has anyone ever come off them with doctors consent as the  function has returned to normal levels ?

3

Thanks for the response, Doreen.

Can you say why it is necessary to decrease the dose gradually, rather than suddenly discontinue?

Seems to me the blood test only tells what the level of thyroid hormone in the blood is. It does not distinguish if that level is a result of the medication, or stems from the activity of the thyroid gland. Am I mistaken?

That is a very interesting question that you ask, if the thyroid function has ever retutned to health naturally.  Let us see what replies come, if any. But how could one find out, without discontinuing the medication?

Clive 

4

As with all drugs, the body becomes dependent on them and rightly so ones own defences become inactive as the drugs do the work. I think doctors are too quick at putting people on thyroxine after only one blood test, I think they should be taken one month apart to double check the thyroids activity. In my case the dose was increased from 50 to 100mcgs within two months after blood tests.I am led to understand that it is quite dangerous to just come off them as the thyroid levels would drop like a clanger and may result in heart failure or seizure  or similar, I may be wrong on that point and maybe others on the site will let us know about that.Of course you would never know your levels without a blood test so all rather difficult for one to find out without a test being done whilst on the drug and one taken a couple of weeks after coming of the drug. I wonder if anyone has done that? Dee

5

Yes, the body becomes dependent on the drug, that is one way of putting my point.

In actual fact I stopped taking the levothyroxine 3 day ago, after taking 11 daily doses. I have not noticed any ill effects, although as I said I was not experiencing any of the usual stated symptoms of hypothyroidism before I started to take the medication.

 

6

You have probably done it just in time before your body gets used to the drug taking over. It will be interesting to see what your next blood test reveals and I hope it is back to a normal level. I am very interested to know as perhaps I will come off the damn things myself.

7

I will keep you informed then. No one else on the forum seems to have any experience or knowledge in this area. I have just put my questions to a doctor acquaintance.

8

Look forward to the answers.  Dee

9

i came across this on the web:

''But before initiating treatment, your doctor should repeat the T.S.H. test a couple of months later to verify your low thyroid hormone levels, because abnormal readings sometimes resolve on their own.''

My doctor did not give me this two months grace.

10

Nor did mine? seems   they are too keen to get you on levo? like statins perhaps.What a carry on,it appears we have to be our own doctor these days, when do you go for your next blood test? that will be the proof you need. How many blood tests have you had? I have had three since xmas, the second one my thyroid levels were still too low that is why she upped it to 100mcg, then I had another test recently and now my readings are within the" proper guidelines" All I can say is I do feel a little more energetic and alert but not like my old self and I am hoping things will get better over time. I have just lost my father and my husband has kidney failure which was only diagnosed last summer so things have been difficult and now I am sorting wedding arrangements out for my son who is getting married on the 26/7/14 with only 3 months notice and his wife to be is Japanese and they live in London and are getting married in the north east, so you can imagine how it is for me.

11

I can see that there are many factors in your life that could increase your level of stress. This is exactly the sort of thing, in my opinion, that can temporarily disrupt the systems of the body. Exactly which ones probably depends on the individual. But often we get over stress, or the causes dissipate, and the body can then recover. Unless, perhaps it has by that time been permanently damaged by medication.

I had two blood tests, only about a week apart. I think the doctor suggested another in about 6 months, which, from what I read, is not soon enough.

Yes, I am certainly not willing to blindly hand myself over to the tender mercies of the medical profession, especially knowing just how much influence the profit-making drug companies have on it.

12

I got a reply from my doctor acquaintance (retired) but he does not answer my question at all (The one I put to the forum initially). He just gives the standard medical line:

Thank you for your confidence on my experience of medical problems. Unfortunately, you didn't tell me the results of the tests, but of course I trust on the conclusion of your doctor. This kind of thyreoid malfunction is quite common and in  far most cases permanent with a tendency of mild and slow progression. The usual ultimate dosage of thyroxin is about 100 micrograms taken once daily. The adequate dosage can be easily tested by a blood test yearly or every two years. The medication has no disadvantages, and it totally compensates the missing hormone production of your own thyreoid gland. This hypothyreosis is one of the most easily treated endocrine dysfunctions, and adequate medication will give permanent good health to your soul and body!

I hope that you have advantage of my reflections.

13

Yes I agree I have had great levels of stress, one on top of the other.I am hoping that in time I will feel much better. It is suprising just how many people have thyroid deficiency, especially in family goups. I wonder if it is hereditary.Does anyone else in your family have it? my sister and neice are also on levothyroxine. Dee

14

Hi Clive,  I have some experience of thyroid problems having taken thyroxine for 28 years.  My daughter also having a thyroid problem.

Why did your doctor decide to do a thyroid function test in the first place especially as you had none of the symptoms of thyroid disease?  Thyroid medication can be a tricky thing to get right and can take years of observance on 'your part' (not your doctor's) to work towards elimination of symptoms.  The more you can research about the thyroid the better off you will be because then you will be armed with the necessary knowledge to make decisions for 'yourself' when it comes to taking the medication.  You will quickly learn that doctors mostly rely on TSH ranges and this can be dangerous.  The normal tsh reading for me is 0.08 which falls 'below the range' and makes doctors jump out of their skin and want to lower my meds which they have done in the past.  This raises the TSH to levels that 'they' are happy with but I am almost dead at their levels.  So I will not allow them to adjust my meds ever again.  It is up to me to be aware of my bodily symptoms.  Doctors should 'listen' to their patients symptoms and the patient must speak up for themselves.  The tsh is an outdated and irrelevant measure of thyroid function.  When they do a thyroid function test they must also test for free t4 and free t3 - these are the only relevant results needed to start a basic thyroid investigation, other tests may follow.

In my opinion if you have no thyroid symptoms you should not have been put on the medication.  No on should be taking the medication unless there is good reason for it as it can be tricky to get the right dose and detrimental to the gland if it is not needed.  If your thyroid is working well then you should look after it and keep it going in it's natural state and just keep in mind that you could need thyroid medication sometime in the future. 

I believe your assumption about the 'thyroid condition becoming entrenched' is correct if you had continued to take the medication - and that the medication would be increased over time until you were fully on the medication and your own thyroid gland would have 'gone to sleep' forever.  Which is exactly what happened to me after a thyroid lobectomy 28 years ago.  I was told to take 100mcg of Oroxine and the remainder of my thyroid would 'go to sleep' and I would be on the tablet for life.  From what I understand at the time I weighed about 60kg and 100mcg was the dose for a female of that weight.  I'm still that weight.  I have been happy on my dose of 100mcg until last year when a doctor insisted on dropping the medication to 75mcg due to tsh readings - I became very, very ill and slid into hypothyroidism with very low body temperature and all the other symptoms - now I'm back to my normal dose and doing fine once again.

I think you have made the right decision at this time but keep an eye on your health and learn all you can about thyroid symptoms because it's up to 'you' - it's your body.  As you only took the medication for 11 days there will probably not be much of a dip in your natural thyroid function.

Sketchy 

15

Thank you for your thoughtful, well considered response, Sketchy. I find forums such as these very helpful. It is most valuable to read of the experiences of others.

The blood test was done in the first place because I requested to have the standard tests, which I do every couple of years.

I am completely with you about taking responsibility for one's own health, one's own body. Of course that does not mean refusing all medical advice and technology. But then if one gets it wrong at least one has no one else to blame :-). And we are all unique individuals, a fact that an undifferentiated approach, that seems to be common in the health services, does not fully take into account.

Thank you for your advice about free T4 a T3, I will look into that.

Nice to know someone agrees with my reasoning :-)

Regards

Clive

 

16

Hi Clive and Sketchy

i have just now signed on to this forum and picked up your discussion with great interest.   I am afraid I cannt give any advice at this stage, rather I wonder if either of you or others may be able to help me!.  iI am writing from Spain where I will be for the next 5 weeks.  I left the Uk a couple of days ago having received the news over the phone the night before That my blood tests indicated low thyroid.  I am now searching the web for ways of looking after myself before I return to the UK for more blood tests etc.  I am a great believer in doing my utmost to improve health by good diet etc (I have lived with diverticulitis successfully for a number of years now and put a lot of this down to diet). I wonder if you have found specific information and sensible advice in diet helpful and do you have any thoughts on the best way to try to improve my low thyroid in the absence of medicine?  Any thoughts very welcome.  It is good to know that there are others out there who believe in self help as much as possible anyway! Good luck and good health to you!

17

Hi Sketchy 

I have done a little research along the lines that you suggested, just enough to appreciate the complexity of the thyroid system, and its connection with the other systems of the body. I am rather amazed how my doctor could prescribe life-long medication on such scanty evidence as the blood tests he ordered, the mere measurement of T4 and TSH levels. I am feeling it is time to find a new doctor.

Thanks again

Clive

 

18

Hi Jenny

Well, it sounds like you are acquainted with the fundamentals of good diet. In general I feel good food will nourish the whole body, taking in all its parts, and especially keeping the immune system in good shape. The immune system in the end is main defence against illness and disease.

For me good diet means fresh food rather than processed or preserved, organic rather than non-organic, whole food rather than refined food. Plenty of raw food, no artificial chemicals. A good variety of fresh fruit and vegetables. A diet based in nuts, seeds, legumes, perhaps whole grains.

As a response to my recent diagnosis, I have cut out caffeine and dairy products. I was already vegetarian, except I eat eggs and supplement with cod liver oil and green-lipped mussel extract. I will also give coconut oil a mention.

I am aware that some people would challenge the above list, in various ways, and I am open to discussion. One puzzle is that I gather that behind hypothyroidism may lie an autoimmune condition. This might mean that strengthening the immune system might have negative implications. Not at all sure about this.

Also I have read that foods to avoid with thyroid problems are soy based products, and the cabbage family of vegetables – cabbage, brocolli, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, turnips etc. If this is the case, this would be quite a loss, as these vegetables are highly nutritious. I am going to research this further. Does anyone have more information?

Of course adequate exercise is important for overall health. Although this can be overdone.

Jenny, you raise a very important question, one I intended to bring up today. What can we do to strengthen the thyroid gland? Strengthen it without bringing about the dependence that has been discussed. Like one might exercise a weak muscle to strengthen it.

I will stop for now, and see if any has any suggestions in this area.

Regards

Clive

19

I received some unexpected support for the idea of ''entrenching hypothyroidism, or at least entrenching dysfunction of the body by aiding its functions with artificially. And this was from a doctor.

At present I am assisting in the home-care of my father, who is terminally ill with cancer. His lungs are affected, and he often has difficulty breathing, and so oxygen has been supplied. I asked the doctor if there was any reason to be sparing in its use. She said yes, because the breathing mechanism would tend to atrophy if it was not called upon to work as it used to, as a result of the lungs being supplied with oxygen.

Clive

20

Poor soul, I know you will find your dads condition most distressing having for the last two years been through this situation with my dad. I can only say that we put all our trust in the medical advice we are given as when it comes to situations like your dad is in, we live their lives for them so to speak and pray each day they will improve, I was so pleased when my dad had good days, I was happy all day. Then in the end I thought he would have hated the condition he was in and I was the one fighting for him to get better when he was ready to leave .I am not suprised I had low thyroid deficiency I think I fought for him every step of the way. It must take its toll. Now he is gone and I am begining to return to a more settled life.