Is my worry for nothing (urine bubbles among other things)

Kidney and urinary tract
1

So, i am sorry if i sound a bit panicked, but I am afraid that thanks to Dr. Google, i have myself a bit worried now, and would appreciate some feedback.

Some general feedback: I am 34, 320lb (working on it, lost over 15lb so far), have sleep apnea (currently treated), and i suffer from severe health anxiety.. no point in lying about that.

 

Two months ago, for unrelated symptoms, i was seen by a cardiologist, and put on Lisinopril (20mg) for my blood pressure (I feel that i strongly have white coat syndrome, as my BP can be around 130/80 at home when i am relaxed). Because of this, i have also had several blood tests, which have included Kidney tests:

3-2-18:

Crea: .90 mg/dl

BUN: 10 mg/dl

Potassium: 3.6 mmol/L

3-7-18

Crea: .90 mg/dl

BUN: 9 mg/dl

Potassium: 3.7 mmol/L

4-4-18

Crea: .92 mg/dl

eGFR: 108 (i understand the estimate is likely too high based on weight?)

BUN: 8 mg/dl

Potassium: 4.4 mmol/L

Glucose: 115

I also had an abdominal UT the last month, where they didn't note anything about the kidneys other than appearing normal (they noted my liver looked fatty).

So, everything sounds great, and seems it.  I dont have any swelling anywhere either.

That said, why am i here?  Well, I am worried about the bubbles in my urine. I have noticed that even if i pee gently, i can still see some small bubbles form, and they can stay around. Dr. Google is kind enough to inform me that not only is this bad, but likely significant Kidney disease. Frankly, i would swear i have seen foam before, but admittedly, i haven't given it as much thought until now. I have also been having back pains, which get worse when stretching (problem is, i also have had back pains for most of my adult life.. i can feel my back popping in several places when i sneeze).

Otherwise, my function feels fairly regular. i go on average 2-3 hours (though, if i have an anxiety attack, it can make me go more often), don't wake up at night to pee (some mornings it looks more concentrated than other mornings.. the last few days have been lighter in the morning.

Sorry for rambling..  where i am now, is i am figuring i have bad CKD despite my bloodwork and UT. I haven't had a urine test (also being honest, i have a kit coming to me tomorrow), so i am even more vulnerable to believing the worst.

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Also, i should note that my most recent test was a 12 hour fast (water only) as they were including glucose, etc...

3

Shadow hawk, 

Your lab data looks good; it's clearly in the normal range. So I don't think you've got CKD at this point in time. Hav they checked your urine? If not, you might talk with your doctor about getting an analysis if your urine to include a check of your protein level.

But I'd would actually just talk with my doctor about the foam and my concerns to see what my doctor thinks. It may be nothing or it may be something completely unrelated to what Dr Google would lead you to believe🐶

Marj

4

Check your urine for protein leakage. Foamy urine could be sign of protein leakage and possibly going towards CKD though your other tests specially creatinine do not suggest that you have kidney disease. 

5

Bubbles in Urine are perfectly normal!

Go by your test results you have had loads of them that rule out kidney disease so far!

Read the other posts on the forum by Megan and Alex...lots of answers there.

Not everyone who is overweight with high BP probs has kidney disease!

So stop worrying, stop googling and enjoy your life!!

6

HI Marj,

Thank you for the feedback.  As of yet, i have not had a urine check (my previous tests were related to chest and abdominal pain i had been, and am still somewhat experiencing). I do have a basic dipstick test arriving today, and I have an appointment with an NP next week (primarily for my thyroid medicine) that i can bring the concern to.

I admit, Dr Google is pretty good about getting me worried - from reading about it, i would swear (regardless of blood) that i could already have a pretty serious issue.. Sigh.  But again, thanks for the kindness and support; i guess i will know a bit more today.

-SH

7

Jane,

Thanks for the support.  I admit, i swear i have had bubbles, but i have never really paid them any mind until recently.  More specifically, i got most worried after reading how the small bubbles which can stick around are the worst sign (even this morning, i had a few despite being "gentle"wink.

I would like to think my BP probs are mostly around Docs, as it seems to be better controlled at home; but i can deal with pretty bad anxiety, which i have seen send it through the roof.. so maybe the meds I am on isn't too bad of an idea. 

I really am trying to not worry.. sadly, this anxiety is probably the biggest hurdle of them all, and it is rough right now.

8

Megan had the same anxiety problems! Read ALL her posts.

Maybe see a therapist to help you with anxiety and then you wouldnt be soo worried/anxious all the time x

9

There are several discussions here about foamy urine.   It is not always a sign of kidney disease.  so many conditions can cause it, include just your nature.  The best thing to do is a simply urine test.  Your doctor can do this for you easily.  Or you can buy your own urine dip sticks to test.  On the test you want to look if the category of protein in the urine is normal.  You should see mine, lol.  Sometimes it looks like I poured a beer (usually the first time in the morning), but always there is foam.  enough to cover half the water usually.  Do a couple of other things too for peace of mind.  Urinate in a cup or glass which has no water in it.  See if any foam or how the urine looks (yellow of course, but clear to see through).  If too yellow you are deeply dehydrated.  Also do not urinate into the toilet water, but hit the side of the bowl, see if you still get urine.  If I use the cup I get almost no foam.  The side of the bowl less.  Sometimes just force can cause the foam.  But I have more than average yet all my tests are fine.  But get a urine test for peace of mind.

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I appreciate the pointer - reading through it now, and i can see alot of similar worry (though i feel worse as i have several good blood results AND UT and still worry).

I also have to admit; in my mind, i had CKD as a death sentence, and a pretty quick one at that. but seeing here how well people can manage it and stabilize it also gives me hope, even if I do have damage (which hopefully my Lisinopril is helping..)

Ironically, that is my other fear - i have read a few, random cases where Lisinopril has supposedly CAUSED damage; combined with the foam, i worried that i might be that rare case. But by the 3/7 blood work i had started on the meds, and the 4/3 i had been on them for a month.

Finally - no argument on the therapist.  My wife left my daughter and I, and i have been an absolute mess, and i KNOW it has ramped up other issues like my anxiety (which i realize is probably doing the most damage of anything right now...).

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Hi Rick,

I am glad you suggested it, as i do have a dip test and collection cups arriving today (though i am hopeful and nervous at the same time).

Like you, if i go in a urinal from height, i can certanly get a good foam at times.What i hate though, is how my anxiety now is clouding my memory of what my bathroom habits have typically looked like.  But aside from that, was the worry that even gently going on the side can still make small bubbles, and these seem to stick around; as Dr. Google loves to point out, this *must* be leaking protein.. so i get anxious.

And like i said.. the other part of all this is my, at least somewhat faulty notion that CKD will be an instant death sentence, so i am/was freaked if i show any sign of it.

12

Mohammed,

Thanks for the support.  I have a dip test kit coming today, which will hopefully provide more insight (and maybe a bit of relief..).  I will keep people posted!

13

Shadowhawk,

I have had some pretty severe anxiety related to my medical issues in the past. (Thankfully I seem to be past that for the most part now.) I remember being very much aware of how the anxiety was skewing my perceptions of my symptoms. 

I am not married and live alone. I'm also the last person living in my immediate family. So I found myself having to deal with the stress and anxiety without family support; although, I do have several close friends who have been most supportive.

So i did several things that helped me a lot:

1. Documented my symptoms (including taking pictures of the foam in my urine using my cell phone). This gave me more accurate and consistent feedback gir my doctors.

2. I trusted my data. Of course I have done a lot of researching to try to understand my CKD and so forth. But I really intentionally focused on my data. When I began to feel more anxious or stressed I would go to my patient portal and, again, review my data. That way I could reassure myself that it was stable and so forth.

3. I created tables with my BP and glucose levels. I submitted these to my doctor on a weekly basis. 

4. I created a symptom tracker visual that I took to all my doctors' appointments. That together with my BP and glucose tables gave my doctors a pretty accurate and objective picture of what I was experiencing on a daily basis.

5. I created questions gir each appointment ahead of time as well as got labs run before each appointment. I reviewed my lab results before the appointment. Then I could make good use of the 10 minute appointment with my doctor.

Finally, for the first year following my diagnoses I also saw a counselor. (My anxiety was related specifically to being a victim of medical negligence, malpractice, and legal fraud. And, to a certain extent, my current medical problems are a result of that bad medical care as well. So I've had some serious problems trusting any medical professionals--although they certainly aren't all responsible for the actions of the primary care physician I saw who perpetrated the malpractice, negligence, and fraud. Nevertheless, it has taken me some time to get past the emotional fallout I've experienced from that bad doctor.)

So, I would suggest seeing a therapist or counselor. You're going to need to be able to work with your medical team. I think you'll also likely find that the more actively involved you become with your medical care, the lower your anxiety will go. The more you understand what is going on with your body and what, specifically, you need to do to support its functioning, the lower your anxiety should go. I'm at my best when I understand what is happening and have specific things to do on a daily basis to take care of myself🐶 Hopefully you'll find that the same is true for you!

Marj

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Marj,

Again, i want to thank you (and everyone really) for the support and kindness, and I apologize  if i have rubbed off as being a bit loopy.

This year has been a huge struggle and turning point for me in terms of health and anxiety; at the very beginning, i finally started much needed CPAP therapy.  The irony here is that the data worried me, which combined with the stress of single parenthood following the divorce, landed me in the hospital thinking i had a heart attack (following 2 EKGs, X-ray, Holter monitor, and Echo, they determined that i only had slightly thickening heart muscle (but no heart attack) - combined with the elevated BP (~180/100 when i was in the ER, though it settled to 120/80 later that night) put me on the ACE meds).

Unfortunately, in terms of support, before the wife left us, we moved across country, meaning that i have virtually no friends or local support, which certainly makes it rough at times when the anxiety gets bad.  While my family cares, they just aren't phyically here, so support from them is limited.

I really appreciate your tips, and will be sure to actually note things i see (and things that i don't see!) so when doubt creeps up, i will know.  But I know the last part of the equation in my anxiety is #2 on your list.  I dont' know why, but i have a real problem believing my data.  Part of me says that a month has past, and things could have really gone downhill.  Or i might think that something else wasn't tested or done right.  The day after consulting my Cardiologist (who has heart failure as a specialty) I went right back to doubting results and thinking he missed something, or held back how serious my condition was (which i realize makes no sense, but that is the nature of the beast). 

I fully agree that i need a therapist, and that is in the near term agenda.  Feel like this, afraid of my own shadow, is not how i want to live (nor is it how i want to raise my amazing daughter).

 

15

Well you certainly do have reason to be anxious!

But for peace of mind both my mum and I dont have bubbles/frothy urine.

Mum in stage 4/5 and I am 3b

Hope you find peace x

16

Your levels are good!, go for a urine test u may have a urine infection, your gfr, creatinine and other readings are great x

17

So, just following up on this to close the loop.  Did a urine dip test, and both the proteins and blood came back negative.  The only thing that *MIGHT* have been there was some trace leukocytes, but i admit the color was a bit hard to read on that one; the proteins and blood however very obviously match the negative result. And sure enough, this sample did give foam, so i imagine if it were from that, this test should have grabbed it.  Talk about a sigh of relief.

I want to thank everyone again for the support and encouragement, and wish everyone a long healthy life, no matter what their body throws at them. 

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I saw you commented on my post too and i know how you feel because I am very scared as well. I am going to the doctor next week and i am like so scared. because i think that i may have kidney disease too since i am getting tea colored urine and a few other symptoms. And i saw you commented on my post and said the muscle twitches i am getting might be from anxiety. I guess it could be. Not sure. But i will ask my doctor about it. I am overweight too though and i have high blood pressure. So i know how scary it is to think that you may have chronic kidney disease. I am scared about what my results are going to be on my blood tests next week or whenever I get them back. I might not get the blood tests back until the week after next but I'm sure i will get them back soon. and i know that not everyone who is over weight and has high blood pressure gets kidney disease. but people who are over weight have a higher chance, which would be me since i'm over weight. So i am like panicking a lot. And also i wanted to say thanks for the advice on my post where you said i should get help for my anxiety. I will do that too since i do have bad anxiety as well. 

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Hey Shadowhawk! I recently made a post about the same condition you have. I talked to my doc on the phonr and he said it isn’t uncommon for regular people to have foamy urine and its a strange phenomenon, possibly due to condensed urine. I wouldn’t stress it since proteinuria from CKD apparently is almost always accompanied by blood pressure above 140 and oedema. 

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"Almost Always"

my mum is ckd 4/5 and has protein in her urine but blood presure is normal and she has no odema, she also has never had foamy or bubbly urine.

Im ckd 3b no protein only blood, normal bp and no bubbles/froth in urine.

Everyone is different and I sometimes wonder how these 'symptom' lists are generated.