Spinal Fusion

Bones, joints and muscles
1

At long last and after suffering severe, debilitating back and leg pain for over 8 years, I have finally been given the OK to have spinal surgery in a few weeks time (depending on NHS waiting list!).

I'd love to hear from others who have had or are thinking about having it done.

I have L4/L5 burst disc and degradation with spinal stenosis and bilateral impingement of nerve roots.

How did your surgery go? Have you had dramatic relief since surgery or was it a total waste of time and you have had no relief or even things made worse?

Love to hear from all our there.

Thanks

Stu wink

2

Hi Stuart,

I have had problems with my back my whole life. A year and 5 months ago I started to get worse. It took about 10 months to go through all the 'processes' of Physio, pain killers, pain clinic etc. Before I finally got the scan I'd been continuously asking for.

The scan showed 2 slipped discs. L4 and L5 one disc was pretty much crushing my sciatic nerve causing constant pain, burning sensations, numbness in places, stabbing pains etc etc. I struggled to carry on working whilst Dr's tried me on various nerve inhibitor pain killers. I tried having a Root Nerve block injection into my back. This helped for a few days.

On March 18th 2016 I had a double discectomy. I was in surgery for 2 and half hours. There were no complications and the prolapsed portions of the discs were successfully removed. I was woken up at 4pm after the op. The next day I realised that the pain and numbness in my leg had totally gone. I think I was so happy I cried just a few tears.

I initially had weakness in my hips and buttocks - which meant I couldn't really position myself in bed and struggled to get out of bed. This lasted maybe a day and a half, after which I was able to very carefully and painfully turn over in bed, get myself into a half sitting position, and after a couple of attempts - stand up. Pain killer wise I was given paracetamol, ibuprofen and morphine. Also various different laxatives to counteract the effects of the morphine. If you find you are in a lot of pain, they should tell you that you can ask for a morphine 'boost' every 2 hours. You may not remember them telling you, trust me though it is worth asking for it - it was the difference between me being able to get out of bed without being in a lot of pain. It really helps you push through the first week after the op. Its 13 days since my op. The pain in my leg is still completely gone. A little of the numbness has come back in my toes - but I can more than cope with that. Walking wise you really have to pace yourself. I found sitting to be most uncomfortable initially. Its only last couple of days I've really been able to sit for longer than about 10 mins. Lying on my back with my knees slightly raised has been comfiest so far.

I can't believe how good I feel so soon after the op. My walking is slow and it is uncomfortable wound wise. I can't walk with anything heavier than about 3-4kg in my hand. It's too uncomfortable and reduces me to crawling speed. I did walk a total of 2.9 miles on Easter Monday throughout the day. However I paid for it the next day. It really is important to pace yourself. Its definitely been Worth it so far.

I hope it all goes well for you. If you have any other questions - feel free to ask. Good luck.

3

Hi Stuart what sort of surgery are you having, where do you live and who is doing your surgery. It does make a difference.

I too have had a lot of problems but wait until you answer my questions.

Enna

4

Hello alison so pleased to hear that you are feeling better. Again like the question I asked Stuart, who was the surgeon and where do you live.

For me its very important because my surgeon says that to operate on me it would be dangerous. Whether it was a bad day for him ( which it was) and my age - time is running out for me. I go to the pain clinic in two weeks and I am going to read the riot act.

5

Hi Enna

I'm having a spinal fusion surgery and it's being performed at St George's in Tooting. I opted to be treated by neurosurgeons as I feel they are better at delicate spinal matters than orthos (just my opinion) and I'm being operated on by the very talented, Matt Crocker.

Regards

Stu

6

Alison

I'm so pleased to hear things are going well for you so soon after your surgery and that you continue to get stronger every day!

My surgeon Matt did discuss discectomy with me but thought it wouldn't benefit me as most of my pain is in my back although I also have severe sciatic and neuropathic pain. That's why we opted for spinal fusion surgery.

Like you, I'm praying that I get at least some relief from the constant agony I live in day after day!

I take so much pain medication it affects my daily life and I'm fed up! Tramadol, gabapentin, Co codamol and fentanyl.

7

Well Stuart, you have a good hospital, my daughter did her Phd there and its excellent. Lucky you.

Can't say anything except that I had decompression L4/5 and L3/4 and I went private because I was desperate - it didn't work and I went to a surgeon who was supposed to be good.  I have my ideas about what happened but don't want to say much.

I belong to ADRSupportUk forum and they could give some help too although ADR Arificial Disc Replacement is not wholly done in the UK now, a lot of them haven't worked and surgeons are not now doing to op.

Like Alison, I have had problems with my back for over 10 years and so far no-one has helped - unfortunately but has had ideas and those ideas have made it impossible to have another op (my surgeon said its now dangerous to operate). So I have to live with it but then so many other people do.  My advice would be Don't rush things - as a friend says on ADRSUpportUK - slowly slowly wins the race. And its true. I remember my first op, I was up and walking round a garden centre when I came home from the hospital, I was elated.  Wrong. 

Wait a little bit after your op and if you feel good, put the surgeons name onto ADRSupportUK or tell Alastair through the forum.  There is a list of surgeons who perform these delicate operations and more and more surgeons are being trained for these.   Neurosurgens I would say are the best, but then I had a neurosurgeon and he was trying something out and it didn't work.  

Can I say this, that everyone is different it important that you know this and that you take your time to get well.

In 2004 when the NHS made you go to a surgeon in your area was an absolute nightmare, Cumbria didn't have one. In fact I don't know of a surgeon in the north at all.  I went to Middlesborough and unfortunately he let the Registrar read the X Rays and he said there was nothing wrong with my back - full stop.   In fact there was and I saw a really good surgeon sailing down the river.

You sound as though you had sciatica with your leg which is what I have, its flipping painful, but a hot water bottle and Lyrica helps.  I have spinal stenosis too which is the root of the trouble.

Yes, I am better than I was with the help of exercise and medication and have asked to go to the Pain clinic after the surgeon said an op would be dangerous, and going to ask for a cortisone injection in my thigh and bottom, that worked a long time ago, so I am trying to lose weight with the idea that the medication might put weight on. If you see what I mean. Hopefully I can walk better with this sciatica.  So so painful isn't it.  I also have an idea that I have trouble in my hip which I will mention, its just that sitting doing gardening, my hip is so painful which you wouldn't expect!!! I can only walk for 1/2 hr so its 1/2 there and 1/2 back in pain but I am so used to it now.  I can, if pushed do 4 hours but I am nearly in tears when I get to sit down.  So the last fiestas, we stopped and drank a cold drink and I made it.  But not 3 days like I used to do.

So let us know how you get on or any questions you may want to ask.   

 

8

Hello Alison, sorry if I don't comment on everything you have said if I go further down on the message box, I lose your comments. One of the bad designs of this website.

Yes, I did everything you did, including research and have to go through everything I had done in the UK, in Spain which is an absolute crazy thing, I will be dead by the time they do physio, pain killers, nerve ablation etc. etc.and Yep exactly like you, the injections don't last many weeks. In spain they give you big shots and do them over 3 weeks. I am not sure what ml they use though. I also had the same op and unfortunately it didn't work.  I say that, I had the operation privately (no insurance) £7,000 and then the appointment afterwards(I had to ask for it) I had pain even when I left the hospital. I take regularly  except Lyrica, Tramadol and Paracetamol but did you see in the newspaper Paracetamol does not help with pain. ~They help in the morning first thing and then although I take more during the day, the pain gradually comes back. The dr said it was a low dose but then I don't want to knock myself out.

I think I have said most things to Stuart.  I am now waiting for the Pain clinic in 2 weeks and if I get my cortisone injections I will be thankful. So far as an op is concerned the neurosurgeon kept the door open. 

But having said that, I consulted 2 private neurosurgeons and both said it was a doddle and they looked at the X Rays so whether it was just a bad day when I said the State Surgeon I don't know. There was a young man who was rushed in before me, going off his head, but I don't know what was wrong with him, he was being told to be quiet etc but I am sure it did knock my surgeon sideways.   He is supposed to be good.  To have your op here in Spain privately would cost 20,000€ and althugh I have it, would it be successful as I have already had two ops (one of which was a decompression at the usual levels and the first one an experiment which I thought he was good at but found out that he hadn't done the op before and had the representatives of the company in the theatre with him).  

Dr March says that its dangerous to operate with scar tissue, but I read of people having ops with scar tissue.   I am wondering what the last one did, even his secretary didn't know but I rang to have it confirmed as I had the bill.  So - so many mistakes can be made and you are one of the successful ones.  Good on yer, I hope you get to be fit and well.

 

9

Hi Enna, I live in Nottingham. My surgeon was Mr M. Tsegaye although so far I haven't actually ever met him face to face. I've always seen assistants or colleagues at appointments. I thought I might meet him on day of op but I didn't - not awake anyway. The hospital is also a training hospital. I am told spinal operations are their bread and butter. My appointment was originally 24the February, but it had to be moved because of a number of emergencies were taken there and also I imagine the strikes had an impact.

However I got there in the end. They did say that there was a risk of scar tissue developing which could possibly restrict the nerve again. Like you said though - we are all different. I think the most important thing for recovery is not to try to do too much too soon. I do know somebody who had one disc done. She believes hers failed because she didn't take it easy for long enough. I hioe you are able to get yours sorted, or at least get some pain relief. Hospital is Queens Medical Centre. Good luck.

10

Hi Stuart, yes they said the same to me - that the op was more for relief of sciatic and neuropathic pain in leg, but that some cases did see relief in back pain too. Before the op I was tried on Gabapentin, and pregablin both of which made me really drowsy and didn't help with nerve pain. They never offered Tremadol or codeine. Eventually they tried me on Duloxetine which was originally designed to treat depression, but has a side effect whereby it reduces nerve pain. It didn't make me drowsy and it reduced the pain to a more manageable level. With these for the back pain, I was taking Naproxen and paracetamol. I really fo hope that you get some relief. All the best, Alie

11

Hi Stuart,

i had had a spinal fusion 6 years ago, it is now seen as a failed fusion. As a result from the fusion at L4-5 I now have a herniated disc at L5-S1, which is causing huge problems and L3-4 is degenerating also.

fusions are viewed as a last result. It is not a decision to be taken lightly, 

Be sure to have explored all other avenues first. 

Unfortunately everybody is different and will have different experiences from fusions. 

Im looking into disc replacement surgery now, it is deemed to be a better option than fusion now, although that's not without risks.

the thing to bare in mind is that once the fusion is done, there's no going back.

im only young and have now been condemned to a life of surgery and pain because I wasn't given all the options in the beginning. Don't be frightened to get a second opinion or question your surgeon, no matter how good you think they are.

I know what it's like to want that desperate relief but don't jump into the 1st surgical procedure they offer. 

Wishing you the best

becs

12

Yep, thats what happens sometimes, how did they do the fusion? Who did you fusion?   It is now known that fusions always affect the disc below and I have exactly the same discs out as you.  Disc replacement can do the same unless its come on a long way now.  Go onto ADRSupportUK which is a disc replacement forum I am sure Alastair will put you right.I say can do the same, but i am sure that there are plenty of people who are OK with disc replacement.  It all adepends on what your bones are like and mine has spinal stenosis so its not possible to do a disc replacement as I would have had it done 10 years ago.  I agree with you that there is no going back once fusion/ADR but please go onto the forum Alastair an d lots of other people on the board have experience.   Of course its also depending on your bones and who does the disc replacement I think.  

Bless you, you are young to have disc replacement I guess, my daughter has a disc out but has been taught by a physio how to hold herself it, but then she works for a gaming company and sits nearly all day, but doesn't do exercises like her mother taught her.

As you will see above, I have been offered fusion by two private surgeons but got the opportunity to go State and the surgeon said that he wouldn't do it as in my case it would be dangerous so goodness knows whats rount the corner for me because I have been, seen and done everything else.  Whether it was because of scar tissue or whether its because he wouldn't recommend it because of the spinal stenosis I don't know but I have 3 levels, going down to the S1 L5.

Anne

 

13

Bless you Becca

I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had the best experiences with your surgery.

I don't know how old you are but I'm 50 and have been suffering on and off with my back for over ten years.

The current damage at L4/L5 was caused by a fall on stairs 8 years ago, which I have suffered sciatica ever since and lost sensation in both of my big toes. This is when I began to take Co codamol and tramadol on a regular basis. Then 2 years ago I had another fall in which I landed smack on my coccyx and did the damage that I live with today. Increase meds to include gabapentin and fentanyl patch.

I hasten to add that alcohol wasn't involved in either of my falls!!! Haha

I refuse to give up the fight. I am determined not to let it beat me, although some days when the pain is unbearable despite all the needs, I do feel like that.

I find sharing and talking to fellow sufferers helps me to cope too. We are the only ones who know just how bad the pain really is and how much is affects us on a daily basis.

I have looked at all my options and discussed them for well over 3 years now. I'm from a medical background myself so have a bit more of an inside viewpoint.

I didn't come to the decision lightly and did my research on which surgeon to choose.

Matthew Crocker at St George's in Tooting has a very good rep. He is young but very experienced. He aliterates very well and explains everybody in detail in terms that anyone would understand. He takes his time to explain and when I saw him initially nearly 2 years ago he told me to go away, try other methods of control including physio, epidural and nerve block etc. Only then after I'd tried and failed to gain any relief did he consider any kind of surgery. That I respect!

Sadly in my case, discectomy wouldn't help as the majority of my pain is in my back.

I cannot sit for any length of time even with the huge amounts of medication I'm on. Driving is the worst and anything over 20 mins in the car and I'm "crippled".

Fusion surgery is my option and I'm hoping it is successful for me obviously. Matt was very honest with me about other patients he'd treated and that there are failures but there are also lots of successful stories too, so I remain very positive.

In fact after only going for my pre op assessment on Weds this week I received a call yesterday with an op date of a week on Saturday!! I just couldn't quite believe how soon!

Stu

14

You know alison, I think I am getting cynical - when I saw the two surgeons for private surgery in Valencia they both said that ADR was a doddle that they were doing it all the time, and so did the orthopaedic surgeon who operated on me in Warrington.  I just don't believe them now. Especially when the surgeon in Middlesborough said there was nothing wrong with my back and I had 2 levels herniated. Yes they go on about scar tissue, I am going to look it up because the last surgeon told me he couldn't operate and as he looked at the X Rays, he was bothered at what had gone on 5 minutes before - and I said scar tissue )I should have shut my mouth) and he said yes. So whether it is or it isn't I don't know.  

If its a teaching hospital there will be a number of people there, Alastair also has a list of hospitals/surgeons (I haven't heard of the one you mention) I have spinal stenosis so it may not be possible to do anything but i get so frustrated, not being able to walk so far, there is so much to see and so little time lol

Now steady there girl, things can wait and including dusting lifting shopping etc. Just take care.

As time goes on Aliston, come onto this website - or any other website - and tell people how you are getting on because that is one of the things people don't do.  They are so elated about their successful operation they forget other people who are considering the same. 

Alastair on ADRSupportUK always says slowly slowly wins the race and I'm afraid I am one of those people who left to my own devices would have mucked about and spoil the work done but now, I think of the work they have done and how hard it has been getting there.  I don't think I want an op actually now, I have read so many stories on this web site now that I might have an ablation and if that doesn't work I will continue to take pills. God I am 73 coming up and although they work in a fashion I can't see me taking them until I flip my clogs.   Very difficult situation.

 

15

Thanks for the info Anne

I'll be sure to look up Alistair like you suggest.

I can't begin to appreciate what you have been through. But you seem to remain so positive which is so important.

I've really struggled with things over the years to cope with the constant pain and having to rely on such a heavy drug regimen. I just want to be able to do the normal things in life without having to rely on meds to cope.

I know I'll probably never be free of medication for the rest of my life, but I just hope that the surgery plus a long restful recovery will do the trick.

Where did you have your original surgery done? If you mind me asking. How long did your recovery take?

Regards

Stu

16

Hi Enna, I can't blame you for being a little cynical. I am 39 and have had a few occasions where I was unable to get out of bed due to back pain. Just before the disc problem started a year and 5 months ago, I was at the stage where I would go walking every sunday with friends for about 13 miles. It would cause me back pain and probably wipe me out for the next day - but I could do it. The furthest I have been able to walk since this started is 6 miles on one occasion, and around 3-4 miles the last few months. I Dont want to risk messing the results of this op up - it's taken me so long to get to this point. All medical staff I've seen though have said walking is the best thing to aid recovery as long as you pace yourself and build up gradually. I will definitely keep posting on these sites as I struggled to find any reports from ppl myself post op and would have found it useful beforehand. I am glad I took the risk and had the op. I hope I stay glad and nothing goes wrong with it. I hope that you manage to get some pain relief soon. All the best.

17

Blimey that is quick.

i too am from a medical background which is a help. I had my 1st surgery at 27, had the accident at 26. 

It it has been recommended to remove my disc completely and leave nothing in the space, which to me is just promoting an arthritic joint. Although it will relieve the stenosis, it's going to create more problems in the long run.

does anyone have any experience of complete discectomy? 

I'm really not sure what way to go.

after the 1st surgery, I returned to figure skating for a while, which after being in a wheelchair for a year was a huge achievement. I also learnt to ride dressage whilst in a wheel chair, as I could no longer show jump, I had no use of my left leg due to a bad epidural.

i still ride now, it gives me something to focus on, but if I have the procedure my surgeon wants to do I will have to give it up. It's a hard decision as its all I've known since a child and was aiming to compete at a high standard in dressage, (maybe even the Paralympics).

having the discectomy will improve the leg pain but increase the back pain, which with the fusion, osteophytes, arthritis and general degeneration isn't something I want.

thank you Anne and stu for your replies, any advice or experience is very welcome at this point as I'm having to make life changing decisions.

becs. 

18

Hi Alison

Good to hear that you are doing well after your op and remaining positive about your future.

I've got to the stage now that no matter how much medication I take, I still get little relief and just hope that the op can at least give me some modicum of relief. On to of all the other I've now been prescribed Oramorph to help with break through, which seems ironically to be every day now. I really can't wait for next Saturday and beyond. In the hope that my future will change for the better.

Thank you to you and everyone for sharing your experiences. It's good to know there's others there to support.

I will update all when I've had my op.

Stu wink

19

All the best Stu, I really hope you get some much needed relief. Will be thinking of you.

20

Hi Stuart,

i had a lumbar decompression on 9th December 2015. The operation was a success I can now walk without pain and numbness, but I now have a very fragile back with pain and weakness. I can't carry anything remotely heavy for any length of time. And if I walk to long my back gets painfull. However my physio tells me it's early days yet and with time it will get better but not 100% better. Was I glad I had the operation? YES, but be aware other symptoms come into play post opp.