Waking up, unable to comprehend anything, number counting

Mental health
1

I have searched on google for years trying to find someone with the same or similar problem to no avail. So here I am.

Over the past 8 or so years (20 now.) I've had this reocurring dream atleast once a year where I wake up unable to comprehend anything, comparing everything to numbers, almost as if I'm trying to count everything I see, to infinity? This is very hard to explain because its nothing I can compare it to in real life. As if i'm trying to count, each little cell, I don't know. But its almost as if my brains trying to comprehend an infinite number and makes me extremely frusterated in this post-dream state, while I'm still awake, walking around panicing. It seems when I look at the mirror I start to fade out of it. 

I typed this out trying to explain it the best possible way I could.. I know it's weird, but I just need answers if possible. 

Thank you.

2

I don't think you need worry about this. There are all kinds of little-known sleep disorders like this one. I've suffered from several of them all my life, though I find they're fading now as I get old. All of them are at their height when you're in your teens and 20s.

My particular one was waking up as two people - particularly if I woke suddenly in the middle of a deep sleep, to go to the toilet for instance. I'd feel very resentful that "she" had woken "us both" up, and I would hear my own voice in my head, grumbling about it. This would continue throughout the time it took me to get to the toilet and back. One winter night, I peeped round the curtain on the way back from the toilet, saw deep snow and started wondering whether I'd wear my green or my red hat the next morning. The angry voice in my head exploded: "Now she's talking about b****y hats when all we need is to get back to sleep!" I laughed about that when I remembered it in the morning.

I also used to wake, even in the morning, hearing very loud music in my head. Another one - which I still have to this day, though less often - is visual hallucinations on waking. Sometimes household items, often miniaturised, but more often geometric patterns all over everything. It takes several minutes for these to fade. Like you, I can get up, walk into the kitchen or bathroom, and still see the patterns or hear the music for several minutes.

These phenomena, normally down to minor glitches in the temporal lobes of the brain, are actually quite common, but most doctors don't seem to know much about them. There's no reason why they should, really, as they're not very significant and aren't a sign of mental illness. The reason we don't hear more about them is that people don't normally discuss them for fear of being thought crazy.

I find them very interesting, though there are others I experience that are much more scary, so I won't describe them here. All this started when I was about 5, stopped when I got into my teens, then came back with a vengeance in my early 20s. I'm 71 now, in perfect health and have never had any mental illness, except for minor depression in my mid-20s.

Probably best not to share with your doctor. He/she is most likely to assume you're making it up, but might just be tempted to prescribe anti-depressants or something, that won't help at all.Just enjoy being a bit different!

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Dreams, there is so much to them.  I used to get dreams that kind of continued for a few minutes once I was awake,  LIke I knew I was sitting up in bed but I could still see the dream superimposed on the room, like a hologram.  It took about 5 mintues or so for it to fade and the room to be just the room.  To me it seems like the content of the dream is not as significant as that fact that you're still in a trance like, dream like state once you're awake.  Also I wonder if you suffer from anxiety, did anything particularly scary happen to you when you were 8?  You could try telling your GP exactly what you've said here and that it worries you and see what he or she says.  I also used to sleep walk, but never done anything dangerous.  A few years ago (I'm 57) I kept waking up and finding chocolate wrappers in the bed with me.  Bizzarre I know but it was only me and my daughter lliving in my flat, so I knew I must have got up and sleep walked to the kitchen, got the chocolate (Twixes) that were meant for my daughter's lunch and eaten them, all whilst asleep.  Then one night I was sort of dimly aware of being in the kitchen eating a Twix, and I just went back to bed, without really waking up.  Not long after I was diagnosed as suffering from anxiety and depression.  Hope this helps.  The unconscious mind is a very powerful thing, maybe get some books out of the library on dreams.  Carl Jung wrote a lot of interesting stuff about them. Take care of yourself.

1 Like
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Do you have any type of respitory disorder? Does this still happen to you?

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I only registered to this because I share a similar scenario. I have the hardest time explaining it to others. It was much stronger when I was a teen. Please elaborate further to me if you want.

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I have had this since I was a child. I am 18 now. I have been trying to find someone with the same experience but I couldn't find them so I just gave up. It happens once a year, maybe more, I don't really remember. I can't explain it either because it is such a scary experience. It stopped for a while, maybe a year or so, after I calmed myself down without getting out of the bed (I always had to get up and start walking, sometimes crying too, because it was so frustrating and I felt like I would go crazy) but about two weeks ago it happened again, and I was really curious ( for the lack of a better word) to find someone who has this same problem. I couldn't explain it better because it really can't be explained and english is not my first language. But it is kind of a relief to find out I am not alone

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Hi - read this entry after searching for weeks about this subject and not finding anything. Ma 34 year old daughter chants numbers in her dream about once a week - I can not wake her up when she is in this state and afterwards she is agressive for a few days. As if she turns into someone else. I can not find anybody who can help me on tthis subject!

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Veronica, I'm a former neuro nurse but am only posting on this patient forum as someone who has a number of sleep glitches (see above).

There's not enough information in your post to come to any conclusion about your daughter's problem. For example: has she seen a doctor; if so, what kind of doctor; is she on any medication; has she had any psychiatric problems?

And the most important question of all: when did this start? Is it a recent development or has she been like this all her life? Did she sleepwalk as a child?

Your daughter's case seems slightly different from all the others on this board, in that you say her episodes produce aggressivity and an apparent change of personality that lasts several days when she's woken. Though it's not uncommon for children to be a bit odd and cranky if woken from a deep sleep, and especially a sleepwalking episode, it's quite rare in adults. However, a few individuals do carry childhood sleep patterns into adulthood.

Incidentally, I'd take a guess that your daughter isn't chanting numbers in her dreams, but rather that this is related to sleepwalking, which arises from the non-dreaming phase of sleep. I wonder whether she's ever told you about a dream on waking.

If this is a recent development, you need to get her to a doctor. It's not clear from your post whether or not you've already done this.

Again, if this is recent, you should insist that your daughter is referred to a sleep clinic. They will decide whether or not to refer her on to a neurologist.

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Dear Lily°! Thanks a million. Let me give some more details. My daughter is not a child - she is 34 - carrier of mandibular discunfion and MS! She lived in Germany until a year and two months ago when she arrived here in Brazil in a disastrous state of health. We have been able to get her much much better - she is being treated for her TMJ and for the MS we started recently a treatment of VIT D - a very successful alternative treatment with a specialist in Sao Paulo. Yes - she has mental problems - but she always sang beautifully - and yes - she sings - always the same melody - rather melodious but monothonous and ..... numbers - not words. When she wakes up she insist me to "put the 7 there and the whatever there - she talks with numbers. And she is agressive - changed for at least a couple of days. Yes - she has seen doctors for her mandibular problem, the most famous hospital for neurologial problmes in Brasilia - who did 28 blood tests but not the most important one - which the alternative docgor did first - she is below insuficiency in Vit D - and she has seen psychologistas. She never did sleepwalk as a child. She does not remember anything on waking. She has been with me again now for just over a year - .has recovered in many many ways - I do not know if she ever had these number singing in Germany. I once asked her ex and he knew of nothing. She takes esquitalopran . I guess it is not written like this. I spoke to psychologists and doctors about it - they do not take it serious or send me to a spiritual center. Which I have not tried. It only happens about once a week or maybe every 10 days -. but what I do notice is that all my animals . and I live on a farm and have a little rescue center for homeless cats and 3 dogs - they all get scared and restless when this happens. I hope that answers all your questions. THANKS A MILLION

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Hi Veronica, I realised your daughter wasn't a child. I was just saying that childhood sleep patterns - which sometimes include this kind of behaviour - can persist into adulthood in some people.

So sorry to hear she has MS. I've heard that trials of high doses of vitamin D have been quite promising in this and a number of other diseases. In my nursing days (a long time ago!) it used to be thought that it was toxic in high doses, and some doctors still haven't moved with the times I'm afraid. My own GP (general practitioner) is very modern in this area and urges me to take high doses of vitamin D even though I'm well above insufficiency level.

As far as I know, escitalopram wouldn't cause your daughter's particular sleep disorder, though I know it sometimes causes nightmares.

I'm glad to hear she's seen a neurologist. I presume you discussed the sleep problem with him? If not, this is something you should do. I'm also wondering whether your daughter has been to a sleep clinic. I'm not too worried about her singing numbers in her sleep - many people have far stranger sleep disorders than that - but I'm still concerned about the fact that she's aggressive when woken. That doesn't fit with any sleep disorder I know about.

I'm also wondering whether you always wake her when you hear this sleep-singing of numbers. Do you feel you need to? What happens if you just let her sleep?

Your point about the animals being disturbed is interesting. Can they actually hear your daughter? I think most domestic animals would recognise this as unusual behaviour and be a bit unsettled by it.

Another point to consider is that our brains are very sensitive to environmental factors. You've probably heard tales of the sirocco - the hot wind that blows off North Africa and onto the southern Mediterranean land mass. This wind has been famous throughout history for causing behavioural changes, especially agitation, in both humans and animals. For many years it was thought that this was an "old wives' tale" but it was eventually discovered that the air driven north by the sirocco has a heavy charge of positive ions. There is now scientific evidence that this produces hormonal changes in the body. The most reliable source for this is on the NCBI site (the US Government's National Center for Biotechnology Information). If you google NCBI and sirocco, you'll find their very brief report. It's only one paragraph long, but very interesting. I realise the sirocco doesn't blow in Brazil, but similar, positively-ionised winds blow in many parts of the world. This is just one type of environmental or electro-magnetic phenomenon that could affect both your daughter and the animals.

 

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Dear Lily ; only today I went to town and got to an internet cafe!! I copied your news and shall reply to you soon.; THANKS A MILLION for takiing your time to reply. 

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This is actually very interesting (sorry, I know it upsets you, but this is amazing!)  Are you "mathematical" in life?  It appears your subconscious mind is trying to "analyze" and the way it is doing that is very rational, almost as if you are somehow "working" on a complex physics problem!  Have you ever spoken to a therapist about this?  I know it occurs rarely and I read that you are very upset by it, but remember: this is a dream, it is originating in your mind, it has symbolic significance that only you are able to understand but it can't HURT YOU at all!  I have had recurring dreams my entire life (different ones) and I know it can be upsetting.  Here is one dream I had many years ago (over 30 years): I woke up early morning, got up and went into the bathroom and stood in front of the mirror; then I woke up, early morning, got up and went into the bathroom.....yep, that happened about three or four times until I finally DID wake up!  It was really weird and upsetting but it didn't mean a thing.  Keep a dream journal by your bed, maybe some of your other dreams can give you a real "clue" about this one!  If you figure it out, please post!

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Hi Jill, That bathroom thing you describe is known as "false awakenings". I've had these all my life. It can be very frustrating when I'm trying to psych myself up to get out of bed in the morning, and keep thinking I'm already up, washed, dressed and ready to start the day... only to find I'm still in bed! I think this is a variant of lucid dreaming, which I also do.

I quite agree with you that it's entirely harmless, albeit weird.

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I have the same problem I wake up having the sudden need to count up to whatever with my dads voice in my head constantly telling me to count and do it faster could be related to anxiety

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I think anxiety is probably making this worse. However, a lot of us have minor sleep disorders that cause us to act oddly when first waking up. I too sometimes experience a voice in my head if I'm woken from a deep sleep in the night (usually by a trip to the toilet) though in my case it's my own voice I hear, making adverse comments about me! I never experience anything like this in my waking life. I also wake to very complex music, hearing all the various parts of the orchestra.

I've been like this all my adult life (I'm in my 70s now) and have long since got used to it. I'd suggest just accepting it. Anxiety about sleep-related phenomena is always a sure way to make them worse.

16

Six months ago I woke up in the middle of the night dream in which I couldn't stop counting. There was a number I needed to reach but it kept increasing, and so I had to keep increasing the speed at which I was counting and the multiples I was counting in. Ridiculous multiples like 763, then 5728, eventually things like 1068,025. It was as if I needed to reach infinity with a completely deadly sense of urgency. It felt like a life or death situation.

When I woke up, it didn't stop. It was as if I was still in the dream. I had no control over my brain, I couldn't stop it. I felt this massive anxiety and frustration from not being able to count fast enough and trying to keep up.

In the end I ran to my parents' room and cried hysterically on the floor saying how I couldn't stop counting I couldn't get it out of my head. It stopped after maybe half an hour, I just had to wait it out. It was one of the worst experiences I've ever had.

Ever since that night I've had reoccurrences when I wake up from a dream similar to that always involving counting massive numbers compulsively. Every other month or so. It's never been as bad as that first night, but it is still incredibly upsetting.

Sometimes things I do in real life seem to trigger the same anxiety to a lesser extent ever since that 'nightmare while awake'. For example I was watching a video of someone solving a 100x100 Rubix cube sped up by 20 times and I had to stop it.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one this has happened to; I can't find anything else about this online. Does anyone know what might have caused this or what it's called? I really hope I don't have to live with it...

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I don't think there's a specific name for what you're experiencing, but there are all kinds of odd sleep disorders people suffer from. I've described some of mine in earlier posts on this thread.

Things like this are more likely to happen in your teens or early 20s, which I suspect might be your case.

Do you think you were anxious or stressed on the occasions when this happened? A lot of my weird sleep abnormalities happen when I'm in a state of stress. It does sound to me as if this is an anxiety-related condition, and these too are more common in teenagers.

You could consult your doctor, but I'd be wary about accepting anti-anxiety meds, unless it's for a period of maximum two weeks. These things can mess you up badly if taken long-term. "Talking therapies" like CBT provide better long-term relief from anxiety anyway.

I think it would probably be best just to put up with this for the time being, and try not to worry about it. I'm pretty sure it will soon go away on its own once you calm down.

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hi are you still interested sharing with this?

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hi nina i'd like to know if you would still wanna share with this topic. 

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Hi! PLEASE - can you send me your e.mail address? My daughter has exactly the same problem - however the only other case I found so far was of a young woman who also suffers from  Multiple sclerosis just as my daugher. But somehow I feel that these two cases are not connected. Svenja fixes her eyes far far away - I can not connect to her - she recites numbers - often repeating the same - and lately I taped her - but it is very very personal. And also I think I hear "I don`t want this" in between the counting. She is distressed for days afterwards - to me she is a different person when this happens. Your entry touched me because I feel the same dispair in your words which I see in her eyes. Maybe there are more people out there and we do not know about them. A warm cuddle to you!!!!