Zopiclone dose...

Treatment and medication
1

Hi everyone

I'm really hoping someone may be able to give me some advice please...

I'm currently taking Zopiclone (7.5mg) and am now on my third consecutive prescription of it having had an initial 7 days (which didn't work), a further 7 days (which worked some of the time) and now have 14 days, which my doctor has told me to "take as and when needed".

The problem is, most of the time they just don't make me sleep. I become drowsy, fall asleep but then ALWAYS wake up at least once or twice during the night, regardless. I end up waking up feeling groggy and fuzzy headed.

Years ago I was prescribed Temazepam followed by amitriptyline, both for insomnia, but neither of those worked either. I think I'm running out of options.

I hadn't realised until very recently that 7.5mg was the higher dose of the tablets (as opposed to 3.75mg), but is it ok to take one and a half or two at night (occasionally) when I'm in desperate need for some proper sleep?

I'm already on Sertraline (100mg) and Propranolol (10mg x 6 per day) so I'm conscious of not being irresponsible with them... But I REALLY need to sleep!!!

Thanks for reading x

2

Hi bella

i feel for you, and totally relate--sleep is a natural need and some of us don't find it that easy.  That can lead to taking medication for it.  Unfortunately the medications are not a permanent solution and bring problems of their own, even when they work.  I am taking zolpidem (ambien) two times per night to get still not that much sleep. Until the end of February i was taking zopiclone 7.5 mg too every night for a year and a half.  zolpidem is kind of like zopiclone, but my experience has been that zopiclone will get you to sleep faster but it's shorter acting. zolpidem doesn't leave me feeling groggy during the day nearly as much as zopiclone did. I have been on zolpidem for 20 years. i do not recommend it, but the fact that i've been taking it for so long shows that i do get help for sleep from it.  There is also an extended release zolpidem which is supposed to keep you asleep longer. i think it does. But anyone who uses any of these medications continuously will eventually and gradually get a tolerance to it so that it has less and less therapeutic effect (sleep) but it will have more and more side effects (grogginess, memory impairment, other thinking impairment, and worse--black outs, altered states of consciousness--these can happen during the day as well as right after taking it)(i've had all these things). I have decided that i would rather have less sleep than be on these medications and i saw an addiction medicine doctor last week who helps people taper off of various drugs. It sounds like your sleep problem is pretty severe if none of these medications put you to sleep. i think that there's a good chance zolpidem might get you to sleep, but it is the shortest acting of any of these medications and it won't keep you asleep for very long. What i have done about that is to take it a second time during the night. This still only gets me a total of about 4 or 5 hours sleep for the whole night, so it's not a solution.  Also recent research has shown an association between these kinds of medications and serious chronic illnesses like cancer and heart disease--so, i feel bad that i keep takign it every night. It's just so hard to give up having control over going to sleep which i do get from them. They do put me to sleep, but then i wake up before long.  However, the crazy thing is that the medications cause insomnia. As a person gets a growing tolerance for the medication, they have a kind of withdrawal symdrome in between doses. It's called interdose withdrawal.  People differ in the nature of these symptoms. i don't get them during the day whicih some people do, not that i'm aware of. But just waking up and not being able to go back to sleep is a kind of withdrawal symptom, when you wake up after 2 to 4 hours.  Before i started the zolpidem 20 years ago, i was taking Valium for sleep for many years. What i found out after i stopped it (cold turkey) was that my sleep improved. It wasn't normal sleep where you go to sleep and stay asleep all night. I would wake in the night. But over time i gradually slept longer periods of time, which i never would have slept on the medication once i started having the tolerance for it.  

so i'm just sharing my experiences and what i've read on discussion forums that other people have and googling the effects of these medications. 

When you start increasing your dose, from 7.5 to whatever, especially after being on the medicatio for such a short time, this sounds like if 15 mg does work for you, i doubt it will work for very long, as your body will get used to it.  It may get you to sleep but not keep you asleep. and then you may think of taking it again in the same night like i have done.  And then your body will need more of it to get some effect.  I have seen people on this forum who have been taking much larger amounts of zopiclone, several tablets. They come here for support in getting off of it. .  It's certainly possible to take higher doses, though not recommended, it's unhealthy, and it can cause people to have car accidents and things like that during the day when they are taking higher doses.  It doesn't keep people asleep but it does keep them hung over or in various kinds of altered states.  And most people i know on sleep medications are tired during the day.  For me, it's a different kind of tiredness from the kind i get from not sleeping.  i guess it's just a grogginess.  

There are various nonpharmaceuitcal things to do to get better at coping with sleep problems.  Those things generally won't have the kind of effect the medications have of getting you to sleep easily but practiced over time, they can lead to getting more refreshing rest out of whatever sleep you do get, so that you don't need as much, and also, it gets easier to go back to sleep when you wake up. For me, i want to try something called neurofeedback, it's like biofeedback but specialized just for the brain, and it trains the brain to generate alpha waves which is the state that leads to sleep. I am not  going to try it until i get off the zolpidem because it won't work.  I am currently taking about 27mg of zolpidem a night. The prescribed dose is 10mg.  Another thing that i find helpful is cognitive behavioral therapy which is a therapy that works with thoughts and beliefs. When i am emotional, as i am about sleep, fearful of not getting enough, fearful of being tired in the day, fearful of not having control over being able to get to sleep, i tend to have thoughts that are not all that rational, i exaggerate the negative, i overgeneralize, i think in negative ways, and these thoughts add to my anxiety, and i've found that i can work with the thoughts, to contest them, to ask myself what is really so bad about what i am feeling scared of, is it so bad that i should be reacting the way i am (as if it's an extr4eme catastrophe)?  So that is helpful to me.  Once i get off the medication, then i will find out how i'm going to cope.  When i went off the Valium, it was not as bad as i had feared, and i remember that.  Still, i'm scared, but i am going to get off these meds. i did get off the zopiclone and now i'm going to get off the zolpidem.

In your situation, if you think you can use knowledge that you have about the medication, that it has a high risk of dependency, then maybe you can take it every few days, not every day, and discipline yourself to wait. Go without having enough sleep for a couple of days and then take it on the third night, but keep control over not letting it become totally habitual--that's what i would like to do if i could go back and do it over. When i got into the zolpidem, in the beginning i only took it a few times per month for a long time.  I wish i had continued doing that, put up with short sleep for a few nights, and then take the medication to get some better sleep for a night or two.  So that's why i suggest that. But we each different, the medications don't effect everyone the same and you have to do the best you can.  As someone who doesn't sleep that easily, i really sympathize with you and my heart goes out to you.  

Others may have other suggestions and ideals.  

3

Hi Bella,

            I was on Zopiclone for 3 months earlier this year. The problem with it is that it is addictive and because it leaves the body quickly ( half life of 6 hours!) you will start to get withdrawal symptoms if you take it for more than a few weeks. I was forced to come off it by my doctor and he put me on 15mg Mirtazapine, an anti depressant, which has given me good sleep so far. Propranolol can cause sleep problems and I only take this first thing in the morning so that it is out of my system by bedtime. I hope this is of some help to you.

4

i just want to correct a mistake in my lonnnggg post above. i wrote that "zopiclone will get you to sleep faster" than zolpidem.  What i meant was, zolpidem will get you to sleep faster than zopiclone, the opposite of what i said.  it's about 6 or 7 lines from the beginning.  

5

This is exactly how I and others ended up addicted to this poison. Zopiclone is supposed to be prescribed for a few days only. Your GP has been grossly incompetent and I suggest you report them to the GMC. It is the only way this promotion of this filthy drug will stop.

Dave - FIFTY SEVEN DAYS ZOPICLONE FREE!

6

Hi Dave

           I hope you are well. I'm glad to see you are still off the Zop. Keep spreading the word about how dangerous the stuff is and perhaps you can save a few people from making the mistake we made. I told my GP about how awful the drug is and that he should think twice before prescribing it. Sorry to hijack you thread Bella but Dave helped me when I was coming off Zopiclone.

7

I should say I'm very glad for people who have found they can do without sleep medication; in truth I'm rather jealous. However, the fact that they have found they don't need it any longer does not mean that evryone else is in the same position.

As I understand it, the Zopiclone 7.5mg dose was set as the dose which most people can take and be able to drive and do other similar responsible tasks about 8 hours later after a suitable number of hours sleep. Far from being a filthy drug, Zopiclone clears ths system better than many (most) other drugs and does not take over your liver (it hardly affects it) like a lot of the antidepressants that are prescribed to help people get the sleep they need.

Your GP should be able to do what he or she thinks is best for your health. Any interference with that, from the GMC, from the govenment, from the legal profession, is what should be dealt with in the severest manner.

Please understand I'm not advocating indiscriminate Zopiclone (or Zolpidem) use and, indeed, do not like the somewhat recent publication relating to Zopiclone and cancer. But if it's the only choice you have to get some sleep...

8

From elsewhere on this forum:-

-

"Zopiclone is not normally taken for more than 2-4 weeks. This is because your body gets used to this medicine and after a time it is unlikely to have the same effect. Your body may also become dependent on it when it is taken for longer periods of time."

-

Meaning that  the drug companies get their junkies and the income from them.

Thanks SL. One or two bad nights but feel so much better now.

 

9

And if you develop diabetes from lack of sleep (well-documented) they get their money from supplying insulin?

10

But being so inactive due to the Zopiclones effects means your footware lasts much longer and that damages the shoe industry.

 

11

I tend not to wear anything on my feet in bed!!!

12

You say " but then ALWAYS wake up at least once or twice during the night", what exactly are you expecting?.

I have taken Zopiclone for years at 15mg per night (when I was prescribed it, that was the dose), and I find they still make me sleep well. But, they are not "knock out drops", and it is unlikely you will be prescibed anything that comes close, Micheal Jackson is an example of someone who took things too far in his search for sleep (or more accurately unconciousness).

For example, I took 15mg of Zopiclone, 10mg of Valium and, 50mg of Amitrityline (ami is supposedly for pain control) the night before last, and even with that lot, I still woke up a couple of times!.

Hope you find something more suitable for you

Paddy

 

13

I've often wondered if Jackson might not still be alive if his doctor had felt able to go straight for the drip anaesthetic rather than trying to "play around" with "lesser" drugs first.

14

I suppose if he had given the anaesthetic properly (with all the monitoring devices etc.), but it seems the Propanol(?)  was ON TOP of 1/2 a ton of Benzodiazepines.

Anyway he`s found out what NOT to give pop stars to get them to sleep!

15

paddy:  in my case, tolerance increased very very slowly. when i'd been on zolpidem for 17 years, i was still taking the original prescribed dose, waking at most once in the night, sometimes falling asleep without taking any at all. The following year, some life circumstances led me to increase the amount i was taking which in turn led to more tolerance which in turn led to needing more medication, with the amount of sleep i got from it decreasing,  in a gradual process. Tolerance meant waking up during the night after less time and being less able to get back to sleep, needing more medication. Up until that 18th year, like you, i was stable on the dose i was on. The only reason i increased it was because i moved further away from work, and when i was driving home at night in a stop and go gridlock traffic situation, i foud that if i got 5 hours of sleep the night before, which i had been quite satisfied with, i would fall asleep while i was driving, not fall asleep but briefly nod off, repeatedly.  I found that when i would get 6 hours of sleep, i would not nod off. In desperation to adapt to my new commute, i began taking the second dose of medication during the night when i would wake up after 5 hours of sleep, so that i would get anothr hour or so, rather than just putting up with less sleep as i had been doing. After that, tolerance increased, still gradually but steadily.  

16

Hi Jaw444,

I suppose everyone is different, I have been taking 15mg since I started taking it around 1994 ish, I to have tried upping my dose, but in my case I didn`t find that 3x 7.5mg made me sleep any more than 2x 7.5mg did, infact I think that once you pass the optimum amount it starts to actually give you less sleep (in my case anyway). When I first started on them, there were no generics, and Zimovane was the only brand avialable.

Still I personally believe that if you are going to be taking sleeping tablets for an extended period, then there is nothing available that works any better than Zopiclone.

Some of the Benzo`s will put you to sleep for 12 hours (Nitrazepam springs to mind here), but they very quickly stop working unless the dosage is increased, that`s why they are so addictive.

I believe you are taking your meds for the right reason, that is to get to sleep, but abuse of all sedatives is rampant nowadays, and Docs are generally loathe to prescribe anything for more than a couple of weeks.

They know just how debilitating insomnia is, but I`m afraid that today they are more concerned about being sued than a patients life being horrendous due to lack of sleep.

Fortunately I was originally prescribed Zopiclone at 15mg a night by a Consultant Psychiatrist (same for Valium), and have been taking them for so long, that it is easier for them to just keep signing the script.

Insomnia is a horrible illness, and very difficult for those who don`t suffer from it to understand, believe me when I say I really do wish the best for you. But it is a very touchy subject with Doctors nowadays.

Many people will tell you to take ground up monkey glands, or some exotic tea to make you sleep, I haven`t found any of these "natural remedies" to be of any use whatsoever.

All the best

Paddy

 

17

Hi Jaw444

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such an interesting and informative reponse. I'm very sorry to read that you've been struggling with insomnia/medications for so long, it's not a nice place to be, and that's coming from someone a lot less experienced in this than you!

Your response is extrememly helpful and I will definitely take your advice and avoid falling into dependency - it's bad enough with anxiety and insomnia, let alone an addiction thrown into the mix. I'm currently having some counselling (for the first time in my life, since I've been so resistant in the past) and although it's not CBT, I think it will certainly be beneficial - so I'm not just being drug-dependent, more like trying to find what works.

Good luck trying the neurofeedback - please tell us about it if and when you get round to it.

Thank you again, and all the best.

 

18

Hi Sunlover7

Thanks for this, it's very helpful. What is Mirtazapine like? Is it still working for you? I hadn't realised that Propranolol can cause sleep problems, so I've taken your advice and will now only take it in the day if needed. Fingers crossed it might make a difference!

Thank you again.

19

Hi Dave

I have to say that my GP is actually far from incompetent, I can assure you. She has been (and continues to be) very hesitant about prescribing me any sleeping medications and is monitoring me on a regular basis by bringing me in for constant reviews. She has told me that zopiclone is a short term solution and that she will not prescribe it regularly.

The reason she has given me another 14 days worth is for me to take on an occasional basis, in the hope that the counselling will help and also that my sleep pattern may be improved naturally by the zopiclone. I know that when I have finished this 14 day prescription, she will not give me any more.

I understand your concern if you have had bad experience in the past, and I'm very sorry to hear that. It seems that you're doing really well having managed to kick the stuff, and for that I really congratulate you.

20

Hi Paddy

I suppose I was naively expecting to have a proper sleep, like I used to in the past, but I'm starting to realise that that's not exactly realistic. It's just that sometimes, all I want is to fall asleep and STAY asleep until my alarm wakes me up for work. Because once I wake up, I'm then awake for hours trying to get back to sleep again, pills or no pills.

I agree with what you say about Michael Jackson and his huge dependency on drugs for sleep... That was a tragic case (in my opinion) and a warning about the dangers of benzos - Whitney Houston was another example of that. 

What I don't understand on here is that a lot of you say you've been on zopiclone for years, but if GPs are only supposed to prescribe them on a short-term basis, how has this happened?