Gallbladder or not! HELP

Digestive health
1

Hi there,

I feel so confused my symptoms! I have had a niggling pain below my ribs for many years, maybe 10 years or more. I often mentioned it to my forever changing doctors in my local surgery. Once one of them decided to send me for an ultrasound and they found nothing. A few years later same again. Now the pain is a dull pain and it’s there pretty much every day. But it was never massive or anything. Just felt like something inside my right side was squeezing a bit. The pain would be dull or a bit more present. And lots of bloating and all the problems that comes with it. A lot of bloating. I have to add here that I was diagnosed with IBS but IBS is so very vague. I am a very nervous person and I am a worrier. Being a Piscean I worry about everyone and everything and about myself too! I wish I didn’t but hey what can you do! One evening 5 years ago I had bad pain in my back on the right side. The pain was to the front too. Felt like I was full, very very full of gas! I couldn’t lie down to sleep so I slept sitting up on the sofa. Next morning I felt better but went to my GP who sent me to A and E with a letter. There I had an ultrasound and a chest X-ray. They saw 1 gallstone 12mm and fatty liver. As I had a mild temperature they kept me in and I had antibiotics intravenously. I got better so they sent me home that evening with an appointment to see the surgeon as he wanted to remove my gallbladder. I did go to the appointment as my old nagging symptoms were still there. The surgeon said I should take my gallbladder out. I said that I wanted to know for sure it was my gallbladder before having surgery as I had pain before and they didn’t find stones the other times. And because of my IBS and my anxiety issues (ie everytime I worry I suffer GI problems) and now is the time to add that I am extremely, and I mean extremely overweight (I have always had weight issues and I lost loads of weight and put back on and so on and still working at it) So I worry a lot about having surgery! He didn’t really listen to me and basically said that it was very dangerous to have gallstones as they can cause all sort of problems and can be potentially very very bad. He was polite but a “know it all” attitude and not willing to try and find out if it was something else. I then asked my GP and she sent me to see a GI specialist. I had an endoscopy, fine, a sigmoidoscopy, fine, another ultrasound, fatty liver but not one but 2 stones 6mm (looks like the one split in two), HIDA scan, fine! And never any pain when doctor’s hand press on my right side. I asked for medication to dissolve the stones and they said they didn’t do that anymore! He said my symptoms aren’t typical of gallbladder attack as it’s been constant for 10 years now and I don’t feel that food makes start an attack. I can have a salad and not digest it and one day I wanted to know if fatty meal made a difference so I had a cheese fondue! I know right! Well nothing! I mean no different from my usual symptoms. He said: well I don’t think it’s your gallbladder but of course I can’t promise that it isn’t. I think it might be a functional problem. I don’t think you should have an operation when we are not sure. You could have your gallbladder removed and still have the problems. But of course you might find it solves the problem. I can’t say for sure. The years later same palaver again with a different GI specialist a t the same hospital! Now 3 years on I am still having troubles! I am now having nausea, quite a bit, toilet problems (that’s all I’m going to say) and a pain under my ribs front and back. Sometimes far right and round sometimes just back, sometimes just front. Pain when I sometimes breathe in, sometimes cough, sometimes walk, sometimes when it catches on a movement I have to stop for 30 seconds to carry on ,  sometimes when I an arm move, but not always and seem worse in the evening. I eat little as on a diet.  Saw the GP today and said that last ultrasound was in October and was fine with still my 2 stones, my fatty liver, no sigh of inflammation. My blood is always higher than it should be. It’s been years. And now faecal analyses is inflamed. So she is sending me to see a GI again! But I have to wait 6 weeks. 6 weeks plus then the time it will take to test whatever! I am fed up and scared. So very scared. I don’t know what to do .Scared of something going wrong before I go and scared of surgery! There we are! I am sorry that my story is sooooooo long! I would welcome any opinion or advice. Thank you so much.  

2

Just a quick add on . some might say that it is my gallbladder since I have 2 stones but my problem is that because a lot of people have stones and no symptoms, and as my problems seem to have attacks or flare up but more of a constant pain I am wondering if it is really my gallbladder or a very different problem with 2 asymptomatic stones! 

3

Seb

please pay attention to what you are about to read ok 👍 

i ‘I just read your posting and this was me over and over I may as well of wrote it myself .

no web no no no !

your problem is exactly what mine was and because of the problem of which I’m coming to ?

i very nearly died !! And likely you may well be heading that way to , but may not be as lucky as me !!

think about that for a moment please I urge you ????

no my friend ,you only have one problem here and it’s FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR FEAR AND MORE FEAR ?

you are terrified of the opp ,or somethi7 going wrong because of your weight etc etc , that’s yr problem and that alone .

now listen and listen good ?

same symptoms as I had  ?

same problems over and over for years as I had ?

stated off 7mm

then 12 mm and fatty liver and all yr symptoms ?

only difference is you had many more tests than I as I simply could not get them and some of them I was too scared to have done like endoscopy for example.

how did I end up ?

well 5 moths ago I ended up , with 3 hours to live ?

my gallbladder was infected for a long time as my bloods were up like yours ?

in particular my white blood cells were continuing to rise and rise !

but they wouldn’t put me in and on intravenous antibiotics even though for the best part of the last 4 months I was in different a and e many times crawling around on the floor in agony , no they only ever offered me morphine of which I also declined.

then I did not know what was happening all of a sudden I lost 4 stone in 3 weeks couldn’t eat was too scared to !

couldant sleep 🛏 for the best part of 4 months I lived on 2 hours a night as I was in agony the rest of the time !

then I asked for a cat scan but got refused !

i managed to pay for one and dropped the results to a very good London general surgeon 👨‍⚕️ 

‘who proceeded to call me an later and told me get here now please you only have hours to live I think your gallbladder has become gangrene!

i returned and was put under by which time I only wanted to die to be honest anyway!

woke up 1hour 20 mins later singing lol

and I’m now 5 months post opp and getting better every week yes I have some gi issues now that also worry me but I’m alive and I think I left too too late and he told me I’m a very very to be alive person indeed!

my pint is ?

i nearly died from fear ! 

I let fear near kill me !

please for the love of god my friend !

go get that little b*****d out of your tummy and enjoy your life , leaving that sucker in their is ant no joke and they don’t get better once stones are formed they only get worse and worse and worse until they literally kill you !!!!

good luck and by all means read over my posts for my full story ,

‘but really it’s time to grow a pair and man up and get that killer inside of you out !!

all the best I hope this helps you make the decision that your gallbladder will eventually make for you anyway !!!

4

Seb

oh and by the way see 

it’s most definitely your gallbladder causing your problems most definitely!!!

5

Your gall stones are well within the size to dissolve them. Do not take notice of those who say they cannot be dissolved. Some stones cannot be dissolved but cholesterol type can be dissolved. It is best to see a Gastroenterologist who knows about the dissolution of cholesterol stones with the taking of Ursodioxycholic acid. I still have my gall bladder that had 5 stones in it 3 years ago biggest 17mm and others. If the stones are reduced to a small size they will then usually not cause adverse symptoms but it is well worth sticking to a healthy diet for life.

There has been research carried out in the USA that reported that a low fat diet caused some individuals

to produce gall stones. High fat diet does the same but it was found that the gall bladder keeps healthy

when it is called upon to emit gall into the intestine.

You must read all there is to know as I said and keep an open mind on the gall bladder subject. A USA

gastroenterologist stated that he wished that he had known  about Urso when he was a registrar and would not have hesitated  to have given his patients the chance of trying that method before removal of their gall bladders. He said he often wondered about those who his superior had given the go ahead for their gall bladder removal who may well have avoided that operation ( cholosystectomy).

6

Hi, Thank you so much for your advice. I was wondering how long you suffered until you had it fixed? And how expensive was the scan and the surgery? If you don't mind.

I have an appointment with the GI in 6 weeks so I have to wait. But was wondering if I should get a CT scan done privately since in all the years I have had this problem it was never suggested I had one done.

PS I would grow a pair if I had any .......... I'm a lady! wink wink wink

Thanks . Good luck with your NHS battle! 

7

Thank you for all of this information. I am seeing the Gastroenterologist  in 6 weeks and I will ask again. In the meantime I am trying to keep it low fat and cut down on carbs. Not because I have an attack when I eat fatty meals because I don't as my ache is all the time and has been for years, but because I really want to lose weight! The trouble is if he says no (I'm going to the same hospital as before) what can I do!

Hope you are keeping well! smile

8

Your so right the fear is what it is for that poor fellow !! I had the endoscope now another to remove the stone then gall bladder out ,frighten to eat lost weight I cannot afford too either , been ages trying to get it sorted beings I don't look the so called type to have gall stones ! my liver function test have been so high I've been taken into hospital twice with pain and still they didn't get to the bottom of it .Anyway one certain doctor obviously a very good one said let's have having a endoscopy because the scan the MRI never showed anything so now stones in bile duct have to come out then gall bladdder I a man siting here in pain but don't have the endoscope till the end of the month 😢Let's hope I make it .💐

9

Hello there yes defo gall stone your pain sounds just like mine and I think I have had this for years not knowing what it is and all put down to IBS too by docs! had lots of test but they never tested for gall stones I cannot wait to get the bloody things out and that gall bladder I am very sacred too 😢💐🙏

10

I live in England and I was never offered that of which you spoke maybe we are a bit behind here ! I did read that in England they now do not dissolve them so I have to have them removed by endoscopy first then gall bladder out .Im afraid I fooled them all by being slim and not the usual overweight person ! so I've been in and out if hospital with high liver function tests I don't drink either . had MRI nothing showed up so had endoscopy with retrograde and the little Devils were there ! I think I've had these symptoms for years blamed on IBS and fibromaligia now have to wait one month to have the stones out of my bile duct then gall bladder out 😢In pain why I am writing this too fed up 😢

11

Barbara

yes and you are right to be very scared to my friend , as was I for 3 years in fact I was bloody terrified and what this nasty illness dies to ones mind and nerves is on another level but they don’t care do they ?

ya know I used to say to my mrs living with thesis monster inside of me is like walking around with bin Lardon behind you with a gun at yr head telling you he’s going to blow your brains out, and you you know he is and will you just don’t know when !!!

thats a bloody hard way to live .

bless you I honestly feel for you and totally understand your pain and fears .

its terrible, no it’s diabolical!!

listen if your that worried and in that much pain , please go to your local a and e and tell them your ni=Ottawa leavening until you get treatment that’s what you paid your taxes for after all !!!

and dont be fobbed off don’t give in to their lies ,because quite simply my friend you life does depend on it !!!!

its very bad when it goes gangrene as mine did !!!

12

Seb

’lol im so sorry 😐 haha about the grow the grow a pair . Oops 😬 

ok young lady , I was in lots of trouble for 3 years and my surgeon said it’s a miracle I was still alive nothing short of a miracle.

but I was so scared Seb because I kept getting conflicting information and and felt how can trust these people they seem to get everything wrong and I do mean everything,and every time!!

and yes I was so scared , and you know what , in my opinion , if your suffering this horrendous s**t and your not scared 😦 then theirs something wrong with you lol because yes it’s very scary !

company  at 68 Harley street called European scanners for your ct scan the next day cost £800

also I would suggest a Mrcp scan from a company called vista diagnostics at Waterloo bridge £400

theirs a lovely guy in Kensington who does ultrasound for  £120 he’s name is Tarik. Their called I U S 

‘internationall ultrasound services.

and I had my opp at the princess grace hospital in Nottingham place w1

becouse I wanted the surgeon I had done so much research on as I beleave he’s the best the very best .

google him , mr Charles imber. Pioneering surgeon. Different class !!

total cost through him just under £ 6,000

my prayer 🙏 are with you xx

keep me posted please.

13

This might be unpopular but reading this thread I have to say not everyone has the same experience just because someone has a bad experience that doesn't mean you will. For me anything negative when I'm fearful just feeds my fear so I avoid avoid avoid.

While others can share their experiences it is just that and only a specialist can tell you whether your problem is with your gallbladder or not. Removing a gallbladder unnecessarily can leave you with the same problems and/or additional problems. It's also easy with the help of Dr Google to fixate and be convinced you know exactly what's wrong with you and what treatment you should have and then be totally wrong. I did that very thing myself.

I know dealing with the NHS is not easy I think I, along with many others, have the tshirt. My experience has been that persistence pays off although it's hugely frustrating. Don't give up camp out at the GP surgery, change consultant, change hospital whatever it takes to feel confident that you're being taken seriously and ease your fear.

Good luck I hope you can get resolution and feel better soon smile

14

Snowred  = What a nice post and very truthful.  If you read my post re the NHS and the fact that I could write a book about my experiences for years I have had very negative attitude from 'them'

but on the other hand as I said there are some NHS doctors and specialists who are excellent in fact I would say the very best in the world and no one in the UK could be attended to better.

If something adverse  happens it's best to learn from it & move on but in some instances that might not be possible if someone is too ill to do the necessary. In 2001 I said to an excellent lady doctor that she should have been given the months salary of a young male GP who by giving me a box of antibiotics could have killed me due to him not admitting me to hospital  whereas the lady GP through experience admitted me the very next day and told my wife 'drive him there immediately'..

If I did not learn something from that experience I would have been stupid. That is why everything is 

now in writing but I sense 'they' do not like that way of procedure but they haven't struck me off as yet so I feel I've done nothing wrong........ only to be a pain in the arse to them and   Why not I ask?

If one is particular why should 'they' not be particular? If a patient feels things are not going too well

it's best to be polite but speak up or better still , write a letter.  A letter on many an occasion goes a long way to achieving the desired effect.......

One of our lady GP's who can be consulted one day per week has lately been asking =what do you want us to do? which I find is surprising but constructive then again that does not mean to say she is going to agree with  my requests but it is a good start is it not? 

  

15

Hi there, and thanks for your reply. 

Yes I agree with you on a lot of these points. I do research too much on internet, and read up and think and if, if only , what if I had, etc....

It is quite exhausting! I am not dealing with this very well. I do panic!

I have an appointment with the GI specialist in 6 weeks so I'm hoping to be able to cope til then.

I don't seem to have attacks after meals, for me it seems to be there all the time. But only recently it's been in my back and especially in making certain movements and the bad bit is the nausea. Don't know what to eat. Also I feel constant rumbling and twisting and spasm under my ribs. So I can't keep but imagine all sorts of horrible scenari! Grrrr...... it drives me mad.

The trouble with the specialists is that they all have different opinions and it is difficult to know who to believe. But admittedly I am probably my own worst enemy. And my main issue about my fear is my weight! It is what is slowing me in decision making about surgery. Sometimes I think I should have done it 5 years ago when it was offered. But I can't be dealing with what ifs and so on. I have to try and be positive and hope for the best.

Thank you dor your input. I hope you are well yourself. wink 

16

Hi, Thanks for all this. I had a quick look at the places that do ct scans but it seems that they only do them if you have a GP referral. And I am not sure I can afford to do all of this privately! I wish I could. 

I don't have private health insurance as nobody wants to insure me because of my weight. I had the same problem when I was younger and slimmer! They are quite picky.

Were you in a lot of pain when just before you had the surgery?

I am happy that you are doing better now. And again good luck with your NHS battles.

17

Does anyone know ig you can see a diseased  gallbladder be seen on an ultrasound scan?

18

Seb

hi again 

well that’s an interesting question see.

yes and no is my answer, I mean yes in some instances and no in others.

i e I had 5 ultrasound over 2 months and although it showed inflammation distension thikend wall and bile duck sect as well as the stones , it did not show my gallbladder was infected and did not show it was gangrene but I beleave that’s almost impossible to see as such.

the other thing is 

yes you need a referral for a ct scan in this crappy country ,

‘which is one of the reasons I’m trying to sue the nhs as my gp refused to give me a private referral for a cat scan !!

but I managed to get one online for around a hundred pounds , if I did not get it I would not be posting right now ide be dead.

you also need a referral for Mrcp scan.

you can get ultrasound without referral but the only place I know you can get this is from ius in Kensington.

and be leave me I tried extremely hard to get these tests !!

hope this helps you xx

19

Seb have you read all there is to know about the Urso? if your stobnes are within the size limits and your gall bladder is not in bad shape you may well be able to dissolve them as I did.

The decision to have ago at dissolving them as I said dependent on the type Calcium etc but above all the decision rests with you. Getting a GSurgeon who knows the urso is essential and knows full well that they work. If they did not work I would not be wasting my time and others writing lies.

Gall bladder stones can be seen with ultrasound but there appears to be differing qualities in those machines because a mobile one came to our GP practice was absolutely clear but the one at our teaching hospital was not at all clear and appeared to be looking into fog & I remarked on the poor quality of the picture.   I had already had a CT scan which stated I had small calculii within my gall bladder but nothing at all of that was mentioned. My symptoms gradually got worse and nothing transpiring over months.

After horrendous up all night on and off over a few months I got another ultrasound that the operator saw some stones but he was very evasive and I could get nothing out of that one.

In certain instances the service and care is abysmal. Yes there are some excellent doctors and surgeons but some are none other than terrible. All I can say is that due to my gall bladder having stones in it and the fact that it was very enlarged and I hammered it with days of lemon in olive oil it made an improvement although that trial was deemed to be quack advice but it worked for me.

It's a diabolical experience and is nasty and going onto the urso when I got it eventually was as simple as ABC.   Although the surgeon warned me that it is a horrible way to rid the gall stones I found that not to be the case at all. 

20

In some instances they are years behind the USA. It is untrue Urso is not used because I was picking up scripts for them last week although I have postponed the taking of them due to other problems but will continue to dissolve the two stones remaining and in any case I do not have any symptoms whatsoever.  The fact is that it has been said by some inexperienced doctors the Urso 

MIGHT NOT WORK which as said earlier is a lie. Speak to any chemist and they will confirm what I say is truthful. Chemists in many instances know more about chemical procedure than any other person. Are not the NHS very much aware how intelligent chemists are now that they are advocating telling patients to ask their chemists whatever?

One of my GPs told me they do not prescribe Septrin ( an antibiotic) these days= a lie because the week after she said that a registrar as well as a chemist who I've know donkey's years confirmed same as the registrar= yes they do use Septrin( sulphamethoxazole + trimethoprim) & have never stopped using it. She told me what she did because of a sour grapes policy in regard to the fact that she knew I could aquire those ABs without her say so. She was a liar in that respect and she should pay more attention to the candid law that has been in situe since 2014 but no one takes the slightest heed of that law least of all doctors. 'They' never make mistakes you know!