Has anyone tried the Chinese herbal remedy for RA that the BMJ has suggested is no less effective than methotrexate? Just wondered if anyone was thinking of this route for their RA? When I went to my clinic they actually said I shouldn't even look at Chinese remedies. But this one seems to be offering an alternative or add on to methotrexate. Any thoughts?
Take MTX. Forget this herbal remedy. If it really was good it would be all the rage.
Hi Ivy, I wouldn't bother. I tried everything and nothing worked. Stick to methotrexate.
Good Luck
I agree - stay with the proven meds for RA. We have enough to cope with as it is so why introduce something else into the mix. As already said, if the Chinese remedy was so good, don't you think we'd all be encouraged to try it.
I think it is very common inChina. It may not be used here because of the industry behind the drugs. I am going to see what it's about. I think we should not always diss something because it isn't a product of a big pharmaceutical. The evidence is suggesting it can work. And with methotrexate. Just wondered!
At the end of the day it's your right to do whatever you feel is right for you. Good luck and let me know how you get on.... I'd be interested in knowing if you have any problems or even improvement.
Wouldn't touch the stuff. Not only have they not been tested, so probably don't work, they might even be dangerous. Stay away!!
It has been tested and it has shown extremely excellent results. In fact, the BMJ has the article listed. Try not to be so frightened of things that challenge conventional treatments when it may be worth considering.
Hey! Not so fast, guys... The BMJ is a highly reputable journal, almost to Lancet standards, as far as I know.
Presumably they've done clinical trials?
If the BMJ say there really is a Chinese herb that can replicate the effects of MTX, let your GP know, and why not give it a go?
Just make sure you GP is aware of what you're doing and wag the reference in his or her face!
And please, give us the link....
Just how many of you have read the study?
First of all, there were 207 patients. They were divided into 3 group: MTX only, the herb only, combination of both. No controls [meaning no group got placebos].
Only 174 patients completed the trial. No information about which group the "drop outs" had been assigned.
The people who got MTX had never used MTX before. And they were given 12.5 mg, which is not helpful in moderate to severe RA.
It doesn't say HOW they calculated the results.....that could skew the outcome.
The investigators note that since this trial lasted for 24 weeks, disease progression of patients was not measured in the long term. Therefore, the team plans to follow these patients for a further 2 years and assess disease progression once participants have completed treatment.
Furthermore, the researchers point out since placebo tablets were not available for this study, the treating doctors and patients in this study were not blinded to medication. They add that in future, a double-blind trial assessing the effects of TwHF is warranted.
Originally, a decoction of TwHF, or hot water extract, which is one of the most common preparations in traditional Chinese medicine, was employed to treat patients. Results from these uncontrolled trials reported excellent therapeutic effects but noted a large number of adverse effects. This stimulated pharmaceutical development with the goal of maintaining efficacy but diminishing toxicity of the TwHF preparations. As a result of this activity, two new preparations of TwHF were developed in China in the 1970s. One was an ethyl acetate (EA) extract, and the second was a chloroform-methanol extract known as T2. Both of these extracts of TwHF claimed to have better therapeutic benefit with reduced adverse effects. Both of these preparations have become commercially available in China and have been used extensively. The availability of these preparations has made it possible to carry out numerous clinical trials of TwHF in a variety of autoimmune and inflammatory diseases
So I wouldn't go running off and trying this.
I absolutely agree Lynn. No point saying anything more...... I certainly wouldn't take it.
Results published in the Annals of the Rheumatic Diseases revealed the proportion of patients achieving the target of a 50 per cent improvement in the number of tender or swollen joints and other criteria including pain, disability and disease severity was just under 46.5 per cent among those treated with methotrexate alone, compared to 55 per cent of those receiving TwHF.
Moreover just under 77 per cent of those treated with both reached the treatment goal, suggesting a combination of treatments could yield the best results. However, it was also noted that 24 weeks is too short a time to evaluate disease progression, and that the dose of methotrexate used in the trial was lower than the typical dosage.
A spokeswoman for Arthritis Research UK commented: "Previous trials of TwHF, also known as thunder god vine, have shown it has some anti-inflammatory properties and immunosuppressive actions, making the compound a potentially useful substance for treating rheumatoid arthritis.
"However, it has well-documented side effects such as stomach pain, diarrhoea, nausea, headaches, skin rash, hair loss, infertility in men and failure to menstruate in women. There are serious safety concerns about this substance and its risks appear to outweigh its benefits."
i would give it a go personally
That's up to you shazzy, but after reading the report you quoted from I'm even more sure that personally I wouldn't.
Although not yet available, this appears to be a MUCH better option for everyone:
"Researchers at Queen Mary University of London have developed antibodies that enable targeted drug delivery to arthritic cartilage, offering relief from rheumatoid arthritis.
"We believe that our targeted approach may become one of the new ways to treat arthritis patients," said university professor and researcher Dr. Ahuva Nissim in a release. "Targeting of biologic drugs to the inflamed joint will result in high local concentrations and low systemic concentrations, increasing efficacy while minimizing side effects. Additionally, a lower total dose may be effective, thereby reducing the cost of treatment."
The antibodies can fuse to drugs that suppress or block inflammation so that the therapies do not cause systematic immunosuppression, Queen Mary says. "
I am posting the link separately. The forum moderator has a tendency to kill any links.
Sheeeeeesh, here we go again. Big Brother trying to kill a decent link!
Thanks for giving the low-down, Lynn. Saves us having to look it up.
Yes, i agree with you. Sounds dubious.
But what did the BMJ conclude about it? Such a trial with no controls and so little info... I'm surprised!
I'm not frightened Iyy, but I have recently been treated for an Oestrogen positive breast cancer and have to take a tablet every day to stop my body from producing Oestrogen, in the hope it will prevent a recurrence. I don't know if any of these treatments would have the opposite effect and cause Oestrogen to begin being produced again. For example, I can't take anything that contains plant Oestrogens as that would have a negative effect on my efforts to try and prevent my cancer coming back. My rheumatologist even had to check with my oncologist before she put me back on Methotrexate, as it can cause certain skin cancers. I have to take all these things into consideration. If they work for others, good for them, but I'm not taking the risk of getting breast cancer again.
That confirms it in my mind then, if it can cause women to menstruate, it obviously messes with their hormones. So I for one wouldn't use that because of the risk of a return of my breast cancer as I mentioned above.
Brilliant and thanks CA. This sounds a better option than my TwHF. Thing for everyone to do is contact the. Armed person and look for the person on the university website. I certainly will do this tomorrow. On another note, does The Mderator have RA????? This alternative informTion is so important and asking questions is something we MUST do at all times. Can you put the link in separate sections and see whT happens???? It is importNt because we with RA are not just experimental eunuchs. My dad got RA at the age of 31 and ignored a lot of what they said because every time there was a new drug, he was the subject. Gold salt, chloroquine, prednisolone, cortisone etc etc and every time we were told this was going to be the best thing out. So you can see why we should question what is happening. Recently, I had X-rays and asked to se them. I was told no one had ever done that???? What not?? Get all your results and look at them and take them home. If you have to request I writing then do it. We are here to find out the best way forward so if we want to get involved in what is happening research wise, then check it out and request and question. I don't mean to go on, but we have to be pro active.